The High Price of Losing Ukraine

Institute for the Study of War ^ | December 22, 2023 | Institute for the Study of War

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston"Has Zelensky Vlad the Invader sat down with a single mildly critical interviewer from the West?
Or does he just put them on kill lists?"

I know you intended to ask me about Putin, but somehow confused Vladimir in your mind with Volodymyr.
Sure, I understand, it can get confusing for people like yourselves.

So the obvious answer is: no, not that I know of.

But who knows if Tucker Carlson will surprise us?

What do you think are the chances of that?

[Gaffer]

And you posted this HS to me? Why? You don’t make any sense. If anyone here is ‘confused’ it’s you. Perhaps you should step back and think things out first before spewing your thoughts. Or just an adult before you post something. Unless I specifically post something to you please don’t tag me in any of your other nonsense.

[Repealthe17thAmendment]

This is a fact that seems to be completely lost on most Americans. They worry about Russia encroaching into Europe, however, it is NATO that has consistently expanded and moved closer and closer to Russia. And some seemed to be shocked that Russia is beginning to feel threatened.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston:

1. "Julian Assange • targeted bc of his dissenting voice.
2. Edward Snowden • targeted bc of his dissenting voice.
3. Seth Rich • targeted bc of his dissenting voice.
4. Gonzalo Lira • targeted bc of his dissenting voice."

As best I can tell, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden are effectively Russian FSB agents, no sympathy from me for them.

Seth Rich's death, by all known facts was a random murder.

Gonzalo Lira was a sex trafficker and Russian spy who died of pneumonia in a Ukrainian jail.

Donald Trump is a very, very different matter and hopefully that nightmare will end by November 5.

In the meantime, Vlad the Invader's special military operations have killed or seriously wounded something like 600,000 Ukrainians & Russians, including tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians, while leaving many millions dispossessed from their homes and refugees from their country.
Those include tens of thousands of Ukrainian children kidnapped by Russians to be raised in Russia, under what conditions?

Some of the destruction in Bakhmut, Ukraine, as of February 2023 -- previous population was circa 71,000:

[JonPreston]

your last effort was awful, well under 50 words. Now look, you either can give me 500 words - WITH PICTURES - or you can't.

which is it?

[JonPreston]

Are you telling me Avdiivka is gone?

Avdiivka is GONE???

Pro-Ukrainian telegram

“The situation worsened in Avdiivka.

The occupiers broke through the overpass over the railway (south-northeast of AKHZ) and moved on.

This is also accompanied by false assaults to mislead, as well as point, but very concentrated use of means of…— ayden (@squatsons) February 8, 2024

[gathersnomoss]

Hold on.
Our border is being invaded. America FIRST
All else can wait.

[BroJoeK]

Repealthe17thAmendment: "This is a fact that seems to be completely lost on most Americans.
They worry about Russia encroaching into Europe, however, it is NATO that has consistently expanded and moved closer and closer to Russia.
And some seemed to be shocked that Russia is beginning to feel threatened."

Here are some key facts which seem to be lost on our pro-Russian propaganda repeaters, like yourself:

1. From the beginning in 1991 Russia-NATO relations were entirely friendly and in 1994 Russia became a NATO partner, on a path towards eventual membership, along with many other Eastern European countries.

2. In 1994 Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum with Ukraine, the US and UK, guaranteeing Ukraine's sovereignty in exchange for Ukraine turning over its nukes to Russia.

3. In 1999, at their request, NATO admitted Czechia, Hungary and Poland.

4. In 2000 Vlad the Invader himself discussed NATO membership with US Pres. Clinton and later with UK defense secretary and NATO leader George Robertson, among others.

5. In 2004, also at their requests, NATO admitted Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia.

6. NATO-Russia relations remained entirely friendly -- or at least not hostile -- for several years afterwards, until 2008, when Vlad Invaded Georgia, and suddenly the West woke up to the fact that Russia was becoming increasingly dangerous.

7. Vlad's invasion of Georgia in 2008 caused the first serious suggestion that Georgia and Ukraine should join NATO, by US Pres. GW Bush, though it went nowhere and was still opposed by the majority of Ukrainians at that time.

8. Ukrainian public opinion on joining NATO did not seriously change until after Vlad first invaded Ukraine in 2014.

From that point on, Russia-NATO relations were seriously hostile, but that had not been the case for well over 20 years previously.

Of course, if you are drinking the Russian propaganda KoolAid directly from the information sewer pipes of the Russian Ministry for Agitation & Propaganda, none of that makes any sense to you, does it?

Map of Russia's CSTO -- notice former Soviet Empire countries colored black or red who do not belong.
These countries are more concerned about threats from Russia than they are about any threats to Russia:

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "Are you telling me Avdiivka is gone?"

I think the city itself has been pretty much flattened by Russian artillery.

[JonPreston]

I think so too, but I need some meat on the bones to your reply.

Please, 500 words or more *with pictures*!

Work with me, will ya?

[combat_boots]

Tnx

[BroJoeK]

gathersnomoss: "Our border is being invaded.
America FIRST
All else can wait."

That's the equivalent of saying we couldn't fight World War II until after we'd passed the 1960s Civil Rights Acts.
They are not logically connected.

The fact is that nothing can solve America's borders until Democrats are removed from positions of Federal power.
That can only realistically happen after November 5, and if Trump-led Republicans do as well as now predicted, then by this time next year our border problems will be well on their way towards solution -- along with many other especially aggravating issues.

That has nothing whatever to do with Ukraine.

Relative to everything in national defense, the cost of support for Ukraine is minor and would not be a factor in balancing the Federal budget, once insane Democrat vote-buying schemes are deleted from it.

So, what, exactly, it would take for victory in Ukraine and what, exactly, are the dire consequences of a Ukrainian defeat -- those are matters for discussion, but none of it has to do with our borders or whether America is something other than first priority to Americans.

[Alberta's Child]

Here are some key facts which seem to be lost on our pro-Russian propaganda repeaters, like yourself:

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I don't post or repeat Russian propaganda.

At the same time, I would not lose a moment's sleep if Putin and his successors occupied Alexander Vindman's home country for the next thousand years. In fact, I'd root for it.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "I think so too, but I need some meat on the bones to your reply."

By "meat" you mean Russian suicidal Meat Wave assaults?

By all accounts these have come almost daily since at least October 2023, with the results of very slow Russian progress in surrounding Adviivka and squeezing out Ukrainian defenders.

The casualties exchange rate in such Meat Wave assaults is said to be 10 Russian conscripts for every one Ukrainian defender, and at least 1,000 dead Russians for every square mile of Ukraine they conquered.
And along with thousands of their own dead are hundreds of destroyed armored vehicles.

Ukrainians have admitted for months now that they may have to eventually pull back from Avdiivka, when things get too tough for them there.
But at least as of today they are still holding on and forcing Russians to pay with gallons of blood for every foot of territory.

[JonPreston]

Your Leader

[JonPreston]

Explain, with Words and Pictures

🇺🇦 “Almost all young and all from Kiev” - it is reported that the new prisoners of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are very young boys mostly in the age of 21-23. - FRWL reportshttps://t.co/HB2mCwzVsx pic.twitter.com/9DMSVukyc8— Zlatti71 (@djuric_zlatko) February 11, 2024

[JonPreston]

Institute for the Study of War is the biggest Neocon resource available. The next is Powerline. And you use both. What’s wrong with you?