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The Fifth Amendment tables could turn on Trump
MSNBC ^ | Aug 12, 2022 | Jessica Levinson

Posted on 08/13/2022 2:40:54 PM PDT by where's_the_Outrage?

UPDATE: (Aug. 12, 2022, 3:13 p.m. ET): NBC News on Friday obtained a copy of the warrant used in the FBI's search of former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago home in Florida, as well as the related property receipt. The FBI recovered 11 sets of classified documents in the search, according to the documents.

This week, in addition to having his private residence searched by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, former President Donald Trump was deposed in an investigation by the New York Attorney General’s office. There he apparently didn’t say much other than that he was asserting his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. And here is what you should know.

The jury could be allowed to consider whether Trump asserted his right against self-incrimination because he has something to hide.

The Fifth Amendment allows you, me and Trump to refuse to answer questions if there is a genuine risk that we could face criminal prosecution based on what we say. But, and this is a big one, the Fifth Amendment does not protect us from a jury in a federal civil case judging us for staying silent and invoking our Fifth Amendment rights.

(Excerpt) Read more at msn.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 4a; 4thamendment; 5a; 5thamendment; chat; cnbc; creepstate; deepstate; dnctalkingpoint; dnctalkingpoints; fakenews; fifth; fifthamendment; fourthamendment; jessicalevinson; lol; mediawingofthednc; msdnc; mslsd; msnbc; nbc; nobrainscollectively; partisanmediashill; partisanmediashills; pmsnbc; policestate; presstitutes; ronklain; singlepartystate; smearmachine; smokybackroomforum; tds; trump; unconstitutional
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To: cdcdawg

Well, Nancy will appoint the jury.


21 posted on 08/13/2022 2:57:53 PM PDT by sasquatch
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

“The Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” Baxter v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308, 318 (1976).


22 posted on 08/13/2022 2:58:19 PM PDT by TexasGurl24
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

I don’t think that’s a legitimate inference. They’re saying he incriminated himself by refusing to say something that MIGHT incriminate himself. If he were only a drug dealer, MSNBC would be up in arms against this inference as a violation of civil rights.


23 posted on 08/13/2022 2:58:39 PM PDT by ToxicMasculinity (At this point, what difference does it make.)
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

The Fifth Amendment does not protect us from a jury in a federal civil case judging us for staying silent and invoking our Fifth Amendment rights.

She is correct. Civil cases have different standards than a criminal case. If the question is admissible the 5th can bite you.


24 posted on 08/13/2022 2:58:43 PM PDT by Oystir
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

This woman is nuts


25 posted on 08/13/2022 2:59:34 PM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds )
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To: All
29213-C5-A-4-DB8-46-F6-8551-F5-E94-D2-FEE8-D
26 posted on 08/13/2022 2:59:44 PM PDT by AnthonySoprano (Lindsey Graham: How can anyone be Mad at Joe Biden)
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

Yeah, let’s just ignore the Constitution of the United States of America. That sounds solid!


27 posted on 08/13/2022 3:00:15 PM PDT by jacknhoo ( Luke 12:51; Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: where's_the_Outrage?
I'm sure this author also things the 2nd amendment doesn't mean we can own a gun, the first amendment doesn't mean we're allowed to speak freely or worship without government regulation, and the 10th amendment doesn't mean that the fed can't impose their will on states for anything they want to.

Because this is how fascists dream things should be.

28 posted on 08/13/2022 3:00:42 PM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Often wrong, but never in doubt!)
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To: where's_the_Outrage?
The jury could be allowed to consider whether Trump asserted his right against self-incrimination because he has something to hide.

There is very specific stare decisis that says that is not true.

https://legalknowledgebase.com/how-has-the-supreme-court-interpreted-the-5th-amendments-protection-against-self-incrimination-to-apply-to-all-persons-questioned-in-connection-with-a-crime

In Griffin v. California , the U.S. Supreme Court rules that the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination not only allows a criminal defendant to refuse to take the witness stand during his trial, but it also bars the prosecutor from urging the jury to interpret that silence as an indication that the defendant ...

29 posted on 08/13/2022 3:01:06 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." --WD)
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

What a maroon. Kyle Rittenhouse nearly got mistrial with prejudice because the prosecutor hinted that to the jury.

The Judge reamed him for it.


30 posted on 08/13/2022 3:01:12 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Not even the police are safe from the police!!!)
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

A deposition is just another word for a perjury trap.


31 posted on 08/13/2022 3:01:44 PM PDT by es345st
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To: Oystir
She is correct. Civil cases have different standards than a criminal case. If the question is admissible the 5th can bite you.

On the other hand it can bite you in reverse. Bill Cosby went to a civil case and in return for immunity against criminal charges he agreed to waive his 5th amendment right and testified. Then they charged him anyway and used all his testimony against him. It's why he's a free man now, a judge threw it out .... after years in jail.

32 posted on 08/13/2022 3:03:22 PM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Often wrong, but never in doubt!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Griffin was a CRIMINAL case.

In a CRIMINAL matter, it is impermissible to draw an inference against a person who takes the 5th.

In a CIVIL matter, the court has ruled the opposite.

“The Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” Baxter v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308, 318 (1976).

33 posted on 08/13/2022 3:04:47 PM PDT by TexasGurl24
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

Yes a lib wet dream. The very liberal dimocrat judge in the Rittenhouse trial jumped down the throat of the prosecution for suggesting that the defendant was guilty because he was pleading the 5th. That crap don’t fly in a courtroom.


34 posted on 08/13/2022 3:05:45 PM PDT by fightin kentuckian
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To: plain talk

The grand jury, as well as the potential trial jury, may be in NY, or in DC. But the arguably general warrant based search alleging potentially dubious probably cause, issued by a magistrate who was legally required to recuse himself d/t his judicial involvement in a recent other Trump case, even he weren’t biased enough against Trump to merit recusing himself on those grounds, happened in Florida. Legal attacks against that dubious search warrant and all the arguably poisonous fruit the FBI collected via it, deserve to happen starting in Florida and to be appealed up that legal chain as far as necessary. And can potentially throw a large wrench into NY and DC legal plans.


35 posted on 08/13/2022 3:09:47 PM PDT by JohnBovenmyer (Biden/Harris press events are called dodo ops)
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To: where's_the_Outrage?; All

People keep using the words, “classified documents.” Are they? Who says so? This entire situation is a cluster.


36 posted on 08/13/2022 3:10:08 PM PDT by Cobra64 (Common sense isn’t common anymore.)
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

Maybe he should have answered, “At this point, what difference does it make”?


37 posted on 08/13/2022 3:10:34 PM PDT by roving ( Pronouns- libs/suk)
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To: TexasGurl24

Washington DC jury and Washington DC judge. Dems have a slam dunk no matter what “case” is presented before the “jury” and the “judge” dontcha think?


38 posted on 08/13/2022 3:10:43 PM PDT by Bertha Fanation
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To: where's_the_Outrage?

I’m sure that Trump already knows this. Answering grand jury questions is not like answering police questions or answering questions in a trial. If you answer a single question then you have forfeited your right against self incrimination.

Don’t answer ANY grand jury questions. Ever.... unless and until you are granted signed immunity from prosecution for anything ever.


39 posted on 08/13/2022 3:11:57 PM PDT by nagant
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To: Valpal1
You are incorrect. Rittenhouse was on trial for committing a crime. It was a CRIMINAL case. Civil cases are not subject to the same rule.

"It is well established that in a criminal trial a judge or prosecutor may not suggest that the jury draw an adverse inference from a defendant's failure to testify."

However, in civil proceedings adverse inferences can be drawn from a party's invocation of this Fifth Amendment right.

The seminal case in this area is Baxter v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308, (1976). Such adverse inference can be drawn when there is independent evidence of the fact to which the party refuses to answer.

40 posted on 08/13/2022 3:12:33 PM PDT by TexasGurl24
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