Posted on 01/08/2020 2:21:55 AM PST by C19fan
Iranian state television said on Wednesday that at least 80 "American terrorists" were killed in attacks involving 15 missiles Tehran launched on U.S. targets in Iraq, adding that none of the missiles were intercepted. State TV, citing a senior Revolutionary Guards source, also said Iran had 100 other targets in the region in its sights if Washington took any retaliatory measures. It also said U.S. helicopters and military equipment were "severely damaged".
(Excerpt) Read more at msn.com ...
We went to war with him because he invaded his neighbor, that was a large oil producer. I don’t necessarily have a problem with keeping him from Saudi Arabia.
Not many FReepers seem to remember the 60s through 90s when Saudi A4abia would intercede on behalf of the West to keep oil prices down. Some of the more radical regional players wanted to really screw the West. Saudi Arabia moderated that drive.
One thing I planned to mention and didn’t before, was that Hussein stated he would help any terrorist group wanting to take action against Western Nations.
The guy was a very problematic individual.
The country is better off now. So is the rest of the world.
Thanks for the links. Okay, it appears they did sell secrets to three nations.
Not good.
Once a nation has nukes, it’s very dicey to take those nukes away.
China is the nation that helped Pakistan, to play off against India.
Good luck now...
Correct, China uses Pakistan as a stick.
However my point was that the Islamic nuclear bomb already exists - that is what the Pakis call their nukes.
The Pakis also share their nuke technology with America’s enemies.
The war was really kicked off by the Saudis. America wasn’t so reliant on Kuwaiti or middle-eastern oil.
The Saudis kept oil prices down, but in return they were given free hand to spread Wahabbism among the Afghans (Talibs), Pakis, etc. - they are the creators of Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Al Shaba, Boko Haram, Lashkar-e-Toiba, the Islamic state etc.
Iraq isn’t better off now than under Saddam - and in the period 2003-2015 it most definitely was far, far worse. Now it’s recovering, but is nowhere near the level of prosperity as under Saddam.
Let’s take one statistic - under Saddam Christians were protected and numbered 2 million in Iraq. Today they are less than 200,000 and persecuted.
Please remind me of what terrorist attacks have taken place using Pakistan’s nuclear weapons technological help?
Yes, one Islamic nation has the bomb. It has not given weapons to any of the other Islamic nation.
It’s scientists may have given away information, and I suspect there are cases where our scientists have done the same thing.
China’s reported detonation of a neutron bomb was highly thought to be the result of them getting information from us.
The point is, Islam does not own that technology. It is not a group-think region. They don’t share nuclear weapons technology across the board. What’s more, you know that.
This back and forth is pointless. Some Islamic people have the bomb. All of Islam doesn’t. We both know this to be true.
Honestly, it amazing to watch you spin things.
The war was not kicked off by the Saudis. The war was kicked off by Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait.
The U. S. vowed not to let that stand and reversed the taking of Kuwait.
You forgot Al Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, Al Fatah... if you’re going to toss out condemnations naming any groups you can come up with, please let me help you.
How many Wasabi Muslims live in Afghanistan today?
Nonsense.
Iraq’s GDP is way down, but the people of Iraq were not getting the benefit of all of Iran’s money before. The figures are cooked up by agencies around the world who were never in favor of the U. S. going into Iraq, and just aren’t going to give up until they have turned victory into defeat.
Total bull s—t.
Democrats are great for doing stuff like this. Now we even have idiots on our own side twisting things as badly as they can to make it look like the U. S. was evil to remove Hussein.
I have listed most of the things Hussein did to his people, the people in the region, the nations in his region. The man is responsible for the deaths of over half a million people, but here you are making the case Iraq was better off under him.
How about the hundreds of thousands of son abducted and forced into the armed services to fulfill his idiotic dreams of conquest? How about the people lined up in front of ditches and shot? How about the women abducted by his sons? What about the people in his nation who suffered while he built himself palace after palace.
How about all the people with smiling faces, thrilled to be able to vote for the first times in their lives?
Today Iraq’s leadership is not committing mass murder. It isn’t threatening it’s neighbors. Hundreds of thousands have not died due to it’s leadership over the time since it took over from Hussein.
It did not create al Qaeda. It did not create ISIS. It did not send it’s military leaders into foreign nations to attack their embassies or kill the staff in them.
Iraq may not be perfect today, but it is exponentially better than it was, for it’s own people, and people and nations around it. If you wish to take the Leftist arguing points and pound them home here, go ahead. You lose.
As for Christians in Iraq, it is true that they have come under persecution. That does not mean that nothing was gained by taking out Iraq’s leadership.
I don’t like Christian persecution, or seeing them flee any nation. Under Hussein, all the citizens of Iraq were subject to persecution. Hussein’s home town may have been the exception, but I’ll bet anyone having family elsewhere who didn’t like Hussein, didn’t fare very well.
Today we see different sects of Islamic people’s come under discrimination there.
Is this unusual in the region? Look at Iran. Look at Libya. The whole region is a festering cauldron of hate and persecution of one sect or another.
You’ll probably never have conventional peace like the West, but at least Iraq is not invading it’s neighbors. It’s leadership is not killing hundreds of thousands on a whim.
ISIS in the north of Iraq was the most vicious attacker against Christians in that region.
That group was armed and funded by the U. S., when it tried to give it to the “good” al Qaeda, thanks to Obama, Clinton, McCain, Graham, and Rubio.
Blaming all that on our removal of Hussein is just lazy. We enabled the most vicious attackers of Christians in Iraq, because Obama was not a friend of Christians, and not grasping more than a third grader’s understanding of the region, he actually attempted to arm our enemies.
None YET - but they have shared the bomb building technology with North Korea, Iran, Libya and Saudi Arabia. They are also in the bidding for selling that know-how to anyone else
Yes, one Islamic nation has the bomb. It has not given weapons to any of the other Islamic nation. -- you just read that they've given it to Iran and started talks to give it to Libya. They also have it on call for Saudi Arabia (their big sponsor)
It’s scientists may have given away information, and I suspect there are cases where our scientists have done the same thing. - it's not just the scientists but the administrator of this, with the knowledge of the establishment who set up nuclear bomb building in Nork.
They don’t share nuclear weapons technology across the board. What’s more, you know that. - they undoubtedly do -- and I know that. The Pakis called their bomb the Islamic bomb remember.
It has been contended that what Pakistan is trying to build is the 'Islamic Bomb'.The revival of Islamic fundamentalism ... Muslim countries aim at fostering Islamic solidarity leading to the Islamic ideal of umma and millet. Secondly, Islamic solidarity is seen reflected in growing cooperation among Muslimscountries during the last one decade
your very statement about "it's not groupthink" is belied by the fact that there is an organization called the OIC - the Organization of Islamic countries
LOL
Honestly...
Does Libya have a nuclear weapons program?
Does Saudi Arabia?
Does Iran actually have a working weapon?
You spout a lot of stuff, but they each turn into a dead end at the end of the day.
Okay, then you are claiming that all the Islamic sects across the Middle-East are unified.
Thanks for your opinion.
Actually I didn’t claim that - don’t make stuff up.
What I said was (and that’s in my posts)
1. Pakistan shared its nuclear tech - with the Norks, Libya and Iran and others
2. this was at the official level, not secrets leaked by stray scientists
3. Pakistan with Saudia and other Sunni states see themselves as part of the ummah
4. Pakistan call’s and called from the beginning, it’s nuclear bomb as the “Islamic nuclear bomb”
Sunni (whether Hanafi, Sufi, Wahabbi etc.) do not see eye to eye with either Shia (12er, 7er, Bohri etc) or with Ibadi, leave alone with Ismailis, Druze, Alawis etc (these may be clubbed as Shia, but they are effectively post-Islamic).
However Sunnis are 80% of Islam and Saudia, egypt, pakistan and turkey are Sunni - and see themselves as part of the ummah of Islam
“Does Libya have a nuclear weapons program?” — Ghaddafi started it, with Paki help, but abandoned it as it wasn’t worth getting invaded (that still happened, thanks to Obama and hellary)
“Does Saudi Arabia?” - yes, it’s called the Pakistani nuclear establishment. By all accounts the Sauds paid for it and have it “on call” when they want it
“Does Iran...” - nope, but that’s not for lack of know-how. The Pakis shared the technology with them, not the fissible material - that’s what the centrifuges were built for.
I was going to respond prior to you offering up more, but it’s okay to do so afterward. I didn’t want you to think your posts inspired this part.
I agree that the Pakistan capability has been referred to as the Islamic bomb. The point I’m still making is that 20 years after Pakistan having the bomb, not one other Islamic nation has it.
So while it has been referred to as ‘the Islamic Bomb’, or state that Islam now has the bomb, for all practical purposes, not one other nation has it. That’s excluding North Korea, and I’m not convinced it has weaponized it’s bomb yet.
North Korea and Iran are both well on their way, with North Korea probably five years ahead of Iran. Not sure how much that nuclear site accident set them back in the last year to 18 months.
Islam has not been able to be cohesive about much of anything other than the fact that each sect believe themselves to be the one true believers. They share the view of the holy pilgrimage, but that’s about it. Some holy sites are revered by all.
When they go back home, it’s back to hating each other again.
Opec was about the only truly group things they’ve ever done, and it was in the interest of money they all joined in that.
Okay, you say the government from Pakistan shared it’s nuclear tech. You may be right.
Has Pakistan ever expressed a desire to destroy Israel? I don’t recall it.
The factions of Islam in Iraq have warred with each other since Hussein’s death. It wasn’t just Christians under the gun there.
I’ve not seen it conclusively revealed that Saudi Arabia has nuclear weapons. Are you sure about that?
Why did Ghaddafi relinquish his nuclear weapons program?
Do you recall?
He got very nervous when we invaded Iraq the second time.
Barring that he may have pushed his program ahead.
Who has BETTER “Fake News”... IRAN or U.S. MSM?
Saudi Arabia has invested in Pakistani nuclear weapons projects, and believes it could obtain atomic bombs at will, a variety of sources have told BBC Newsnight.While the kingdom's quest has often been set in the context of countering Iran's atomic programme, it is now possible that the Saudis might be able to deploy such devices more quickly than the Islamic republic.
Earlier this year, a senior Nato decision maker told me that he had seen intelligence reporting that nuclear weapons made in Pakistan on behalf of Saudi Arabia are now sitting ready for delivery.
Last month Amos Yadlin, a former head of Israeli military intelligence, told a conference in Sweden that if Iran got the bomb, "the Saudis will not wait one month. They already paid for the bomb, they will go to Pakistan and bring what they need to bring."
1. They have had the know-how shared, not the fissible material - probably because the Pakis don't want hell coming on their heads yet
2. The Sauds have it "on call"
3. The Pakis and other Sunni nations (well, not all of them - Tunisia, Turkey and Morocco see differently) see the nukes as the common property of the Sunni ummah
You're restricting yourself to Iran vs Saudia
But the core are the Sunnis - Saudis, Pakis, Malays, Indonesians, Turks, Egyptians etc. -- since the 70s and Saudis oil wealth, they are united by Wahabbism. As I noted above, the exceptions are Morocco and Tunisia where Wahabbism hasn't spread much; and Turkey, where Wahabbism hasn't spread much either
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