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Is Trump Rethinking Abandoning The Kurds?
Hotair ^
| 10/07/2019
| Jazz Shaw
Posted on 10/08/2019 7:46:52 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
We’ve had more than 36 hours to absorb the news that President Trump was pulling our troops out of the way of an anticipated Turkish incursion into northern Syria. (And possibly out of the country entirely.) The response has been rapid and generally brutal across the board. Has any of this sunk in with the President yet, potentially leading him to reconsider this decision? As of last night, it certainly didn’t sound like it. (Associated Press)
I held off this fight for almost 3 years, but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home, he wrote, adding that, WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN. He said it will now be up to the region to decide what to do with captured IS fighters, and warned of retribution in response to any future attacks.
We are 7000 miles away and will crush ISIS again if they come anywhere near us! he wrote.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has threatened for months to launch the military operation across the Syrian border. He views the Kurdish forces as a threat to his country. Republicans and Democrats have warned that allowing the Turkish attack could lead to a massacre of the Kurds and send a troubling message to American allies across the globe.
But at the same time that the tweetstorm was brewing, US News reported that an anonymous “senior administration official” said America is “not removing its forces from Syria in the face of a Turkish incursion.” The official went on to say that Trump had simply ordered approximately fifty special forces troops to relocate to “a different part of the country.”
But that’s sort of a distinction without a difference, isn’t it? If the expected Turkish assault is only going to move fewer than twenty miles into Syrian territory (as Erdogan intimated) and we’re pulling our troops to the south, that’s still “removing our forces” from the expected field of battle. Still, this apparent contradiction in the messaging makes me wonder if an extra night to sleep on it has the President reconsidering the plan.
I have no doubt that President Trump isn’t losing any sleep over the Washington Post’s comments about his “stunning ignorance” of the situation in Syria. He probably takes it as a badge of honor. But some of the other people weighing in must surely carry a bit more weight with him.
Two of the louder voices in Washington who are opposing this policy shift are Lindsay Graham and Cocaine Mitch. I’m not suggesting that Trump takes his marching orders directly from them (or anyone, for that matter) but he’s surely aware that if the Democrats move forward with impeachment, those will be two people he needs leading his defense in the Senate trial to follow. And they’re hardly alone. Elected officials and conservative media figures across the board are freaking out at this point, moreso than they have been over most any other controversial decision coming out of this White House.
The President is describing this as yet another campaign promise he’s keeping. Fair enough, but it’s not being done intelligently. Trump’s constant goal since taking office has been to keep his base revved up and solidly behind him. But those Republicans screaming most loudly about the abandonment of the Kurds were elected by that base. What few defenses of this decision I’ve seen thus far have been luke-warm and watered down at best.
If Erdogan’s forces come blasting into the border region this week and begin slaughtering the Kurds wholesale, the disaster will land squarely on the plate of Donald Trump and nobody else. And starting yet another trade war with Turkey in response isn’t going to solve anything. They’re already a marginal “ally” at best and such a move will simply push them further into Vladamir Putin’s arms all the faster. There is no good outcome from this scenario that I can see and the President needs to find a path to back away from this move even if he loses face in the process. Sadly, that seems totally out of character for him so I’m not hopeful at all.
TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; Syria; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: associatedpress; erdogan; jazzshaw; kurdistan; kurds; receptayyiperdogan; russia; syria; trumpnato; trymp; turkey
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To: pollywog
They provide artillery and air support among other things. Take that away and the Kurds are at a tremendous disadvantage against the Turkish army. Sure, our fighter jets can take off from Incirlik in Turkey, fly across Turkish airspace, bomb the Turkish soldiers, turn around and just fly back to their base in Turkey. And Turkey won't do anything.
I'm glad we have sophisticated military strategists here on Free Republic.
How exactly would it work for the US airmen who are currently stationed in Turkey if the US and Turkey get into a war with each other?
To: DoodleDawg
RE: Just like that, huh?
Should have done that when we were planning to leave.
42
posted on
10/08/2019 8:41:06 AM PDT
by
SeekAndFind
(look at Michigan, it will)
To: Sacajaweau
You don’t think like a billionaire. There is a good option. “Wallet Warfare” Trump used it on Mexico and bam... 27000 troops defending our Southern border. China has lost $23 trillion in wealth. Not a single shot fired. If Turkey pisses Trump off the result will be an economic crash in Turkey and Erdogan’s head on a pike by his own people. A single tweet could crash their market. The root of our power is economic. We have the mightiest military because we can afford it. Trump is just choosing to use economic muscle instead of kinetic muscle.
43
posted on
10/08/2019 8:43:09 AM PDT
by
LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget
(TRUMP TRAIN !!! Get the hell out of the way if you are not on yet because we don't stop for idiots)
To: pollywog
They provide artillery and air support among other things. Bullshit! This is not the old analog days when you had a compass and map. The Kurds can run their own missions with liaison that does not need to be "boots on the ground".
44
posted on
10/08/2019 8:43:25 AM PDT
by
SanchoP
To: freeandfreezing
It would be very reassuring to know that the nucs stored at Incirlik were quietly removed since the change in leadership n Turkey.
45
posted on
10/08/2019 8:44:27 AM PDT
by
RedEyeJack
(What was the basis for the restriction?)
To: SeekAndFind
Should have done that when we were planning to leave. I don't think they were planning to leave till yesterday.
To: DoodleDawg
I understand the US forces have developed the Kurds into a fine-tuned fighting force with all the weaponry they need, plenty of ammunition which the US will continue supplying and everything needed except for an air force - antiaircraft weapons, yes!
They should be able to take care of themselves considering the rest of the President’s plan for the region.
47
posted on
10/08/2019 8:45:10 AM PDT
by
elpadre
(AfganistaMr Obama said theoal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
To: freeandfreezing
"
How exactly would it work for the US airmen who are currently stationed in Turkey if the US and Turkey get into a war with each other?"
Those Americans volunteered, so, who cares about putting them at risk?
DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND !!! WE'RE GOING TO ABANDON THE KURDS !!! /sarc
48
posted on
10/08/2019 8:47:00 AM PDT
by
Rashputin
(Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory !!)
To: freeandfreezing
Here is a quick summary of what we have sitting in Turkey:
"Incirlik Air Base has a U.S. Air Force complement of about five thousand airmen, with several hundred airmen from the Royal Air Force and Turkish Air Force also present, as of late 2002. The primary unit stationed at Incirlik Air Base is the 39th Air Base Wing (39 ABW) of the U.S. Air Force. Incirlik Air Base has one 3,048 m (10,000 ft)-long runway,[6][7] located among about 57 hardened aircraft shelters. Tactical nuclear weapons are stored at the base.[8]"
I presume all the lets have a war with Turkey hawks have a plan for moving the nuclear weapons and our 5,000 airmen out of harms way as the war unfolds. That sounds like a pretty complicated task.
Here is the base website.
To: SeekAndFind
If Erdogans forces come blasting into the border region this week and begin slaughtering the Kurds wholesale, the disaster will land squarely on the plate of Donald Trump and nobody else.
Except, maybe, Erdogan, you idiot author.
50
posted on
10/08/2019 8:50:22 AM PDT
by
VanShuyten
("...that all the donkeys were dead. I know nothing as to the fate of the less valuable animals.")
To: SeekAndFind
Just let they Kurds go their own way.
51
posted on
10/08/2019 8:53:24 AM PDT
by
from occupied ga
(Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
To: RedEyeJack
It would be very reassuring to know that the nucs stored at Incirlik were quietly removed since the change in leadership n Turkey. Actually not. Having tactical nuclear weapons readily available would make it easier to protect the Kurds and our base at Incirlik. We could just threaten to nuke the capital of Turkey if they bothered our friends in Syria. We could use the tactical nuclear weapons on the area surrounding the air base to protect the air base.
It doesn't take much thinking to realize that starting a war with Turkey would be crazy. Trump is smart enough to realize that. His critics are only claiming what he is doing is reckless in order to promote their own careers. If Trump actually engaged Turkey in any kind of military conflict, or even just threatened them we would here all the same voices criticizing Trump for being a war monger and starting trouble with a NATO ally.
To: DoodleDawg
They have their own region of Iraq and they are known as the toughest fighters in the region. Somehow they’ve survived all this and their neighbors consider them a threat.
53
posted on
10/08/2019 8:55:38 AM PDT
by
Williams
(Stop Tolerating The Intolerant.)
To: VanShuyten
“ If Erdogan’s forces come blasting into the border region this week and begin slaughtering the Kurds wholesale, the disaster will land squarely on the plate of Donald Trump and nobody else.“ Except, maybe, Erdogan, you idiot author.
Agreed. If Erdogan does that; I hope we drop a damn MOAB on Erdogan's head and Administration.
54
posted on
10/08/2019 9:01:10 AM PDT
by
Boomer
(Our melting pot has turned into a pressure cooker)
To: DoodleDawg
Not well. Tens of thousands have died at the hands of Turkey and Syria and Iraq over the years. Some tribes of mooselimbs killing another tribe of mooselimbs, it's a start, and I'm all for it.
Eradicate the islam curse on the world.
55
posted on
10/08/2019 9:03:06 AM PDT
by
USS Alaska
(Nuke the terrorist mooselimb savages, today.)
To: Boomer
Turkey is and for a long time has been a real mess. We have strategic air bases in Turkey we’d like to not lose and yet we can trust them as an ally.
56
posted on
10/08/2019 9:03:46 AM PDT
by
Magnum44
(My comprehensive terrorism plan: Hunt them down and kill them.)
To: freeandfreezing
Trump has big cajones but I don’t think he is bold enough to light off a B-61 without a national consensus on such an action... That would probably get him impeached for sure.
57
posted on
10/08/2019 9:08:07 AM PDT
by
RedEyeJack
(What was the basis for the restriction?)
To: from occupied ga
RE: Just let they Kurds go their own way.
I feel very uneasy about this.
They were our loyal allies. They fought courageously beside us against ISIS and fought well ( even their women ). Besides, the Kurds are one of the few Muslim groups in that area who are not anti-Semitic.
Think about the repercussions if we simply abandon them. Who is going to want to be an American ally? Who is going to believe any American assurance or promise in the future?
There is a way of solving this — If we’re going to leave, we don’t simply up and leave immediately. We provide them with arms, weapons, train them to use these to defend themselves.
58
posted on
10/08/2019 9:13:42 AM PDT
by
SeekAndFind
(look at Michigan, it will)
To: SeekAndFind
You have to look at a map of the area involved in these decisions regarding a Turkish incursion into Syria.
It is less than a full pull out of U.S. forces, but it is still a giant gift to Erdogan that has zero to do with fighing ISIS or even keeping it under control in Syria.
Erdogan’s move is not about Russia, Assad or ISIS & Al Queda in Syria, it is 100% about the Kurds, and 100% about setting things up for a squeeze play involving Russia and Assad from the south, Turkey on the north and the Kurds to be squeezed out of the middle between them.
Erdogan says he seeks a “safe zone” and yes it is only about twenty miles in width. But where? It would be only twenty miles wide but is to stretch the entire length of Turkey’s boder with Syria. Erdogan contols only a bit of the eastern end of that area, around the city of Afrin. The entire rest of it is under the control of the Syrian and Kurdish forces led by the Kurds own militias.
So what is the true meaning of the “safe zone”?
It is to cut off the Kurds in Syria from ease of access to the Kurds in Turkey and Iraq. It is to make the Kurds in Syria caught, bound up, between the Turks to the north and Assad to the south.
To do it, Erdogan will have to take the major cities in northern Syria that the Kurds now hold - peacefully other than continued clashes with ISIS remnants - which are all in what Erdogan lyingly calls his “safe zone”.
Once he can hold that “safe zone” he will fill it with “Syrian refugees” from Turkey and anyone who knows the history of Erdogan and the extremist groups we and Assad have been defeating in Syria, then you know what that “ssfe zone” will become. It will become a sanctuary for Erodgan supplied extremists to continue to pursue Kurds south of the so called “safe zone”, just as the extremist “refugees” in Afrin do today.
59
posted on
10/08/2019 9:34:51 AM PDT
by
Wuli
To: Williams
“How is it that the Kurds survived for centuries and in the recent decades without us having any troops in Syria? “
From their point of view they would call their situation one of “existed” but hardly one of “survived”.
Since the end of the Ottoman empire, most of the nation state history in the region has been, collectively, (1) ignoring Kurd’s interests, (2) supressing Kurd’s interests, (3) state sponsored cultural genocide of Kurd’s interests by Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria, (4) direct attacks on the Kurds to diminish their interests and force them out of areas the officials of a state wanted to repopulate with Turks, Arabs, Syrians or Iranians.
Such actions did not happen for centuries under the Ottomans because all they sought from local officials was that they allow the Ottoman’s rule to keep the peace and they not rebel against that rule. Beyond that most people had a lot of local control over their own affairs. That made the Kurds in the Ottoman’s area more free than they have been under any of the modern state’s in the area today.
From the Kurd’s point of view, their demand for their own province in Iraq, their fights inside Turkey with its rulers, their gains (regains) in Syria are all collectively about fighting for their very identity as a people, a people that are not Arabs, not Turks, not Syrian and not Iranian; regardless of how their, Kurdish, lands got divided up into those other nations today.
60
posted on
10/08/2019 9:47:53 AM PDT
by
Wuli
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