Posted on 08/16/2019 6:30:54 AM PDT by central_va
With the “Fight for $15 External link ” making headlines, opinions abound about whether raising the federal minimum wage will have a positive or negative effect on unemployment rates. Advocates of an increase cite the impossible task of making ends meet on today’s paltry sum of $7.25 an hour and say an increase would have little effect on the overall economy. Those against such a move predict that doing so would cause employers to lay off more and hire less—raising unemployment rates as a result. As is often the case with such emotionally charged issues, especially in an election year, the broader conversation about the minimum wage tends to involve more feeling than historical fact. To balance such a dynamic, we decided to turn to the data to see what it reveals.
(Excerpt) Read more at onlinebusiness.syr.edu ...
I have done minimum wage work, albeit a long time ago, and I can tell from personal observation that not everyone is interested in bettering themselves via hard work and initiative.
I have worked in jobs where some positions are piecework, you can look that up, and others minimum hourly wage positions. Would you care to guess who was humping it all day long? Which people thought up more efficient ways to do their jobs? It was the people on piecework.
I held both of those types of jobs in the same furniture manufacturer many years ago and the people in piecework busted their asses. Most, but not all of the people on hourly wage slogged the day.
Here’s another interesting aspect. When you have a bunch of people on minimum wage regardless of what it is, it’s easy to see that some people do have a work ethic and others work at doing the minimum. Which is really poor for morale because it’s pretty frustrating when you’re doing twice the work of the guy next to you and he’s collecting the same pay.
central-va, you are preaching to the Un-Choir. Unfortunately, many beliefs on both the Right and the Left are simply Articles of Faith, and people are highly unlikely to change their opinions based on the facts. For example, the Left believes in AGW and Institutionalized Racism, and most of them will go to their graves believing it. No matter if the black illegitimate birth rate is 77%, or there is no scientific evidence that CO2 causes global warming, it is simply useless to point it out to them. The same holds true for Conservatives and minimum wage hikes. It should be obvious to the meanest intelligence that if a person works full time and still can not provide for a basic level of survival, that is a bad thing, and will cause major societal problems. And they will never glom on to the fact that ridiculous minimum wages has an adverse effect on all working people, not just the poor ones. Gee whiz, but the whole income inequality thing has gotten out of hand, and I place most of that on two or three things - 1. too low minimum wages 2. Too much offshoring, illegal immigration and HB1’s; 3.Conflicts of interest among publicly held corporations who way overpay their upper management. I guess you could add 4. Massive corruption at every level of our society. But, Conservatives are convinced that because government screws up most things, that minimum wages are screwed up too, and no amount of facts or logic will change their minds.
2 and 3 are a much bigger problem than 1.
Some jobs simply aren’t meant to be the kind of jobs that one can support a family on. Case in point, Fast Food jobs, those should be for teenagers to get their start in the workplace. I would advocate a “training wage” for people under the age of 18, that would be lower than the minimum wage.
If there was an actual connecting between the min wage and unemployment then I would be against it. But there is no connection.
The right likes their government subsidized unskilled labor force. ...and they call us socialists.
This is a real eye opener:
If Walmart Paid Its Employees a Living Wage, How Much Would Prices Go Up?
Oh, you want fast food to be like Pop’s Malt Shop back in the 1950s. Sorry, it is 2019. Been to a fast food joint lately? Seems to me that a lot of adults are working there now. And, a lot of senior-citizens. Regardless of what you THINK fast food should be, it is what it is. The way many grownups have to work to try to squeeze by. Of course, they can’t so -— Food Stamps! Housing vouchers! Medicaid! etc.
Generally, you get what your ambition drives you to. Some people just sit back and take what life gives them. Others have drive to improve themselves and get more out of life. Naturally that's what drives wealth disparities. The disparities in Life Ambition.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
There are better ways to do that than to dictate what a company can pay their workers.
Can you please explain who is dictating what a company can pay its employees? Because I was not aware of any move to dictate to companies what they can pay. There is a law which sets the MINIMUM that they can pay per hour, but I am not aware of any laws that apply above that.
In your world, they don’t have to better themselves because their basic needs are provided for when they work ANY job. But yet you are saying that they will better themselves anyway? Sorry, not buying it.
You ever heard of a guy named Mazlow??? Because I am sure once a person can pay for food, utilities, and a car - that they might desire a few other things in life. I bet you did, personally. I bet when you got to a position in life where you could pay the bare necessities, that you did not stop. Am I right???
lol, Here is more info that gives exactly the opposite findings. If you need help understanding the data let me know and I will be glad to help you.
https://mises.org/library/yes-minimum-wages-still-increase-unemployment
https://www.epionline.org/oped/o76/
So, sorry if I don’t buy what you are selling or believe your version of what the truth is. For every article you can find saying that raising the minimum wage does not cause unemployment, I can find another or maybe even two that say the opposite.
You want to focus on Walmart and other mega companies, yet you conveniently forget...
There are almost 21.5 million (90%) small businesses in the United States.
Small businesses are responsible for 39 percent of GNP.
Small businesses are responsible for 52 percent of the all U.S. sales and contribute about 21 percent of all manufactured U.S. exports.
Small businesses contribute 44 percent of all sales in the country.
Small businesses employ 54.4 million people, about 57.3 percent of the private workforce.
https://www.ntia.doc.gov/legacy/opadhome/mtdpweb/sbfacts.htm
Small business cannot continue to raise wages so you can feel good about yourself because you think that this makes things “fair”. Besides, I have yet to see one of you minimum wage advocates answer these questions:
Who owns the job, the company or the worker?
So, because I own a business, I can no longer negotiate what I am willing to pay someone to perform a job for me?
Why do you and your ilk get to decide what a job is worth? The company owns the equipment and infrastructure present to make the job possible. They spend the money on it, maintain it, and assume all the risk, but according to you they should have no say in what they are willing to pay to do this work using THEIR infrastructure?
At any given time, there are “X” number of jobs in the economy. Wages have been falling because we have been allowing a non-stop flow of unskilled labor to just walk across the border who will work for under the table cash. This means they will work for less money. This has had a downward push on wages. You know, supply and demand? I will explain it slower if you need help. So, your solution is to create some made up value for ALL labor, out of thin air based on what you think “need” is or should be? And you think this will solve the problem?
I propose freedom for owners to negotiate and for workers to work for the wage they would like. Even if it is lower than some others. This is called FREEDOM. So before you accuse others of being socialist, you many want to examine your own tendencies when it comes to thinking you or others are entitled to someone else’s earnings.
And , by the way, I was condescending and insulting with this post because that is how you posted to me and others previously.
SO, then welfare is not a problem then? I mean, they WANT more so we should just pay right? Dumbest thing I have heard all day?
By the way, do those recipients better themselves? Um no.
You provide us with an argument from Slate. Really?
You lost me. Why is welfare not a problem? Gee, I guess if I can get say $25,000 per year on welfare, and have my time to myself, including the ability to work for cash somewhere, or go to a job paying $7.25 per hour, or about $15,000 per year, then I might just stay on welfare! Is that what you mean?
Or, are you talking about the welfare that the rest of the country has to pay so that WalMart, for example, can continue to pay its employees a sub-livable wage? Did you even see the video Cent-va put above.
I am still waiting for your answer on Mazlow, and on whether or not you personally “stopped” when you hit the “paying for the bare necessities” stage. They are simple questions. Yes and/or no would work for me!
Agreed. It is basically feeling good about one's self by spending someone else's money.
One is paid for the value they bring to the employer. To pay based on their perceived need is socialism - nothing less. They are taking from those who are perceived to have more (employer) and giving it to those who are perceived as not having enough.
And who decides who needs more & who has too much? Yep, socialists with no skin in the game.
If the government was so fair and altruistic it would require a two tier minimum wage. One starts at the lower minimum wage and gets promoted to the higher wage if their work warrants it. Thus the more productive (minimum wage) workers would not see the slothful being paid the same thing for doing less. Never happen because the purpose of the minimum wage is really to put as many as possible down to the lowest common denominator. Again, socialism.
Oh my, but the pearl clutching! You asked, “So, because I own a business, I can no longer negotiate what I am willing to pay someone to perform a job for me?”
Who is telling you what you can pay your employees? If you want to pay one of them $30,000 per year, instead of $40,000, then that is between the two of you. BUT, you can not pay them less than minimum wage, whatever that is, or the rest of us have to chip in money to pay for food stamps, housing vouchers, etc.
Look at it this way. I can not priss around town topless. If I do, I will get arrested. OH NO! They are telling me what I can and can not wear!!! No they aren’t. They are simply setting forth a minimum amount of clothing.
But I suspect you already know that. You just want to pretend to argue so you will not have to face up to the fact that you have no argument. Because. Denial.
Yes by all means shoot the messenger. Do you dispute the facts?
While I won't deny that there are a whole lot of ersatz Republicans on the cheap labor express, not all on the right are. I would say the "real" right is totally against the that kind of cheap labor. Whereas with the left it is pretty much everyone is in favor of open borders and cheap imported labor. Look at who is try so hard to stop the President from deporting these illegal laborers. Follow the money.
If there was an actual connecting between the min wage and unemployment then I would be against it
Mmmm, I call baloney on that. The truth of the matter is, there should be no minimum wage either way. Everything else is tangential.
Not one chart or raw data in any of those links. I give you facts and data and you give back BS.
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