Posted on 09/16/2017 7:53:01 PM PDT by grundle
When I encounter large companies acting in what appears to be a fraudulent matter, I presume I'm not special and that the company is harming the public in general. At that point I go slightly nuts and get far too aggressive (my wife says the right word is "rude") on the phone with customer support people who are not fundamentally at fault.
This happened yesterday with Amazon. I tried to wiggle out of my bad behavior to my wife using economics. I explained to my wife that being aggressive is a form of economic signaling to make people take your concerns seriously. But she would have none of that. "Rude is rude. Imagine you were at the other end of that call? How would you like being treated that way?"
She's right and I hereby issue a blanket apology to anyone in a customer support role that I've treated rudely over the phone in my 65 years on the planet. I also hope to be better behaved in the future.
Now to my concern about Amazon's shipping policy. And this is not connected to Amazon Prime, which has been the subject of several different class action lawsuits.
On Monday (November 21st, Today is November 23th), I purchased a birthday present for my wife directly from Amazon. Her birthday is on Saturday, but I wanted to ensure it arrived in time given the holiday traffic. So I paid an extra $30 for next day delivery. But at the back of my mind I sensed I had just thrown away $30. I buy a lot of things from Amazon and, while I haven't documented the number of cases, I have often paid for next-day delivery, yet the package didn't arrive on time.
I checked yesterday (Tuesday) using Amazon's tracking info and all looked good. The present would arrive by 8 PM. But when 8:30 PM showed up on the clock and the package hadn't arrived, I called Amazon's customer support. After the usual wait time, the Amazon support person came on the phone and was extremely polite. She immediately got UPS on the phone. UPS said they had no record of receiving the package, whereas Amazon's tracking said they had. I asked (with a rude tone of voice) how could that be? Isn't it the same electronic system being used? No answer. I wasn't sure they were getting my question, so I asked a few more times. Still no answer. UPS: We never received it. Amazon: We can't say where it is until UPS scans it. "But your system shows it handed over to UPS?" No answer.
The UPS person, who was also very polite, signed off. I asked the Amazon person, still amazingly polite, to please issue a refund for the $30. No, it's not yet midnight and, in any case, you need to contact the shipper, UPS, for a refund?
"But I paid Amazon the $30?"
"Yes, but the shipper is responsible."
"I write a column for Forbes that covers consumer fraud. This sounds like consumer fraud. Can you please have a supervisor call me. Here's my number."
"Please hold on."
"Ten minutes on hold and the supervisor was on the phone." Also very polite. "My colleague was wrong about the refund. I'm also going to refund your payment and extend your Amazon Prime service for one month."
"Thank you. But I'm interested in a bigger question. If Amazon sells expedited shipping and the parcel doesn't arrive on time, which Amazon can tell from its electronic tracking system, does Amazon refund the expedited shipping fee automatically? Or does the customer have to call?"
"The customer has to call."
"But many customers don't have time to call and be kept on hold and then reach someone and then told they have to argue with UPS and then be kept on hold to talk to a supervisor. You know from your electronic records when a customer paid for expedited shipping and it didn't take place. Also, shouldn't Amazon go back in its electronic records and discover all the people who paid for expedited shipping that wasn't provided and issue them refunds? Aren't you engaging in consumer fraud?"
"No one has ever suggested this before. I'll send an email to our technical team and maybe they'll consider doing this. Have a lovely Thanksgiving."
Now my blood was boiling. So was my wife's who thought I had used an angry tone of voice and was abusing powerless people in a huge company.
This morning I checked on Amazon. From their tracking system, the package sat with UPS for 24 hours in Kentucky and supposedly was sent out for delivery at 6:32 AM. It's exactly four hours later - no package. Amazon's system now "guarantees" delivery by 8 PM.
Bottom line. Amazon should immediately implement an automatic refund policy re charging customers for shipping services that they don't then provide. And the company should refund all payments for shipping services that were paid for, but weren't provided in the past. Amazon has the electronic means to do this. Not doing so truly does represent a form of theft. If Amazon's refund policy is not corrected immediately, I would hope some enterprising lawyer starts a class action suit against the company.
People work at these places.
People don’t work anymore. That’s a thing of the past.
There is your problem.
The level of people you talked to can’t affect corporate policy. They can, however, do the right thing on a case-by-case basis like refunding shipping charges and product costs and giving credits.
Monday, I found a generator part I needed. The Amazon webpage said 2-day prime, since I pay a yearly fee for that.
Delivery Sept 20th. Now this was Sept. 11th. That’s 9 days not two days.
Same with the $10 option to pay for one-day shipping. Still Sept. 19th.
How does Amazon get away with this???
Seems an overreaction. If I email Amazon with a problem, they tend to throw money at me as a first instinct.
The problem is with UPS, whom they are paying to get the delivery made. UPS consistently does not deliver my packages, period, and they even scan the package as “delivered” when it is not. Fed Ex, on the other hand, always delivers on time, even on the next day, without any problems, via Amzon.
Unlike some I believe there is a time and place for lawsuits against big corporations. Many have become too big monopolies, and too anti customer to really care. Amazon is a good example. My only problem with class action lawsuits is how the lawyers end up with all the loot while customers get get a $5 coupon. But it does change corrupt corporate behavior. Yes and I’ve also taken it out on those in customer service. But I always ask to speak to Jeff Bezos, etc so they know they are not the target.
the moral of this story is to not gamble on your wife’s birthday. he can write all the stories about it in Forbes that he wants to, but it suicidal to not have a ROCK SOLID plan A as well as a plan B for your wife’s birthday present.
...People don’t work anymore. That’s a thing of the past.
There is your problem...
People in the service industry don’t care anymore. Answer the phone. Give the customer the first answer you can think of to get the customer off the line. Answer the next call. Repeat.
I like many things about AMZ, but their shipping policy seems to be getting worse than in previous years.
If you don’t teach children how to be Christians in school, they won’t be Christians in the work place either.
Getting you to yell about it and upset your wife is just something extra the devil throws in for everybody’s entertainment.
If more of us raised POLITE hell when we get screwed over, these folks would clean up their acts. The reach of the social networks is another positive factor: Sharing a bad experience with 10 million of your closest friends CAN have an impact on their behavior.
I have noticed that any time your order is sent usps, there is a decent chance that you’re screwed. beyond that, I haven’t noticed anything beyond amazon’s usual spot-on deliveries.
This article is from 2016
bbb
I’m sure low level Customer service workers aren’t permitted to refund ... even in clear cut cases that it should. I’m sure they have to call a manager to refund, and that this is by corporate policy.
I’m sure this very same problem has happened to me.
I swear, I did not read your reply before I posted my #13.
“Check to make sure UPS isn’t handing it off to the USPS.
The USPS has lost 3 of our packages and delivers the rest 3-4 days later.”
I am finding this to be a problem more and more with a lot of things I order online. They are handed off to USPS, which couldn’t care less about when they deliver.
I ordered a Chainsaw had it shipped slow boat to China, scheduled for Thursday delivery it was on my porch the Monday prior.
I was impressed
That is weird. In my area, UPS is very reliable, but we’ve frequently had problems with FedEx. I’ve often wished that vendors would give me the choice of using UPS shipping.
(As an aside, USPS is still very good with parcels in our area; things often arrive well before the anticipated date.)
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