Posted on 05/20/2017 9:07:10 AM PDT by Elderberry
The United State Army made waves a couple months ago when they finally chose the Sig Sauer P320 as a replacement for the long-serving Beretta M9. Many have mused at why the military chose the Sig over the other entrants. If the M9 is out, could the M16 and M4 be next? According to recent reports, the famed Eugene Stoner rifle could be going the way of the M14, M1 Garand, and 1903 Springfield.
The M16 was adopted into service in 1964 after extensive testing. The army was searching for a smaller projectile and lighter gun that could easily be fired in semi-automatic and fully automatic modes. They found that in the M16. Of course, the original adaption of the Armalite Rifle had some issues, but over the years the M16 adapted to meet the needs and use modern materials. These adaptions led to the M16A1, A2, A3 A4 and then the M4 and M4A1, all of which have been the selected service rifle of the U.S. Military at one time or another.
Those days may soon be gone. A recent report from the Army Times broke the news that the military is looking to replace the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge, and thus, the AR platform. The report details how the military is looking for a larger caliber bullet, something in the 6.5mm to 7mm range, that can reach out further with more lethality than the light .22 caliber 5.56mm.
Reports from Afghanistan and Iraq have shown that at least half of the engagement distances are over 300 meters, where the 5.56mm can lose lethality, especially against armored combatants. The Army still wants something light, so not back up to the 7.62mm class, but something with better ballistics than the .223 Remington. (Perhaps the 6.5 Creedmoor?) As most of our enemies are shooting 7.62mm-based firearms such as former Soviet or Iraqi AKs, SKSs, Druganovs, and PKMs, they actually have a deadlier reach than our troops’.
Being outmatched on the battlefield is not the American way, and in order to keep our warfighters safe, it may be time to hang up the Stoner-designed rifles. With modern technology, materials, and ballistics, perhaps the next generation of service rifles will capture the hearts of Americans like the M16 did. And hopefully we’ll see an influx of surplus .223 Remington/5.56mm NATO ammunition hit the market!
The Army’s search for a new round and rifle combination has been going on since 2014 but is expected to wrap up in the next few months. Eventually, parts of the military’s study will be made available to civilians, though much of it may stay classified. We’ll just have to wait until we find out more!
Everyone missed the obvious point. If the army gets away from the AR platform then it loses its status as a “weapon of war”. The liberals/gun grabbers also lose their case in which to ban the rifle based on it being a “weapon of war”.
I already had the 6.5 x 47 Rem700, so I went with the Grendel on the AR15.
That makes too much sense so it’s not gonna happen. The military industrial complex will want to make more money by selling a whole new rifle and caliber.
How do you like the Grendel? I typically like the bigger rounds.
Cartridge-related religious wars aside, the last time they went through this the program went Tango Uniform because DoD insisted on a replacement that had double the reliability of the M4 platform. But after 50 years of battle-testing and upgrades, Stoner’s dinosaur on average is running 3600 MRBS. Good luck finding anything that’ll run double that once it’s in the hands of Pvt. Snuffy and being operated under battlefield conditions.
So unless they lower their standards this time, it’ll likely be SSDD.
Thanks.
I just recently built it, but I like it a lot so far. I've almost broke .500 on my groups, but I know I can do better as I haven't started reloading for it yet.
Lately I've been deer and hog hunting with the 6.5 X 47 Lapua. I can shoot the same 130 grain bullets in the Grendel and not give up too much velocity. I went with a 24" barrel to maximize velocity.
I started off with a .243. Then moved up to 8mm. Then down to .308. Then 7mm. And now 6.5.
Why couldn't I have just started off at 6.5 and saved a lot of hopping around?
There is a series of videos on youtube where a guy shoots .30-06 AP and 7.62 NATO AP at mild steel and AR500 steel targets. The .30-06 would pierce through 1” of mild steel whereas the 7.62 wouldn’t pierce through it. Both rounds were stopped by 1/2” AR500 steel.
Right
The 6.5 G comes in at about 25 cartridges per pound. 5.56 x 45 M855 comes in at at about 50 per pound.
As a kid with my handy lee loader. I'd tear down my Grandad's M2AP and load both bullets and powder into my 30-30. I knew that the powder was too slow for the 30-30, so I didn't even measure it. I'd fill the case up, just leaving room in the neck to seat the bullet. No steel to shoot at, but they'd sure go thru trees. Made a hell of a fireball though. Yes, I single loaded them.
They found ways to improve the good ol’ M2.
I agree on the 25 per lb for the Grendel, but I figured around 37 per pound for the M855. (at least using the data from this site:http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/04/09/how-much-does-your-ammunition-weigh/
Yep. The Remington 6.8x43 was the cartridge that DOD was flirting with a few years ago, apparently the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit and Special Ops Command had some input during its development. I wonder why it has been nudged out of the spotlight? It seems like a good compromise between the 5.56 and the 6.5 Creedmore.
Probably the easiest thing would be to just go to the .243X45. Go with a fast twist and whatever bullets work best. Also keep the barrel at least 20 inches even if you have to go to a bull pup.
Bullet weight runs from about 90gr to 129gr.
AR15 can’t support a 6.5Creedmoor. the older AR10, which the AR15 was patterned off of, can support it.
it may be time to hang up the Stoner-designed rifles.
= = =
Well, then the AR’s will not be evil Military any more, right?
Was thinking more what a full-up magazine would weigh. Running with 4-5 7.62 mags bouncing on your waist was a pain.
A 30rd Stanag holds about 25 rounds of Grendel. Weight is near identical for that.
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