Posted on 05/06/2017 11:13:55 AM PDT by WilliamIII
Calling all conspiracy theorists! The National Archives is set to release the last remaining top-secret files about John F. Kennedy’s 1963 assassination, in a process that could begin by this summer. The trove of some 3,600 files, mostly from the FBI and CIA, were part of the collection assembled and sealed by the Archives, on the condition that they all be made public by October 2017.
But there’s a catch: According to the same law, President Donald Trump has the ability to block the release of any or all of the documents—if he certifies that keeping them secret is a matter of national security.
(Excerpt) Read more at history.com ...
The FBI and CIA also said that Ceausceau of Romania was an “independent Communist” from the USSR and they could use him to take the USSR, yet Pacepa blew that claim out of the water when he provided irrefutable proof that, yes, that guy was indeed allied with the Soviets all along. The FBI and CIA even protested against his claims. I have more reason to believe Pacepa regarding the KGB being involved with LHO’s assassination of JFK, than I do any of the people who claim the CIA, mafia, and what have you holding responsibility.
And as far as Ho, both the Politically Incorrect Guide to Vietnam and the Conservapedia article made it very clear that, no, he received his armaments from the USSR and China, NOT us. If he really did get armed by us, Conservapedia would have noted it, especially considering they do in fact have a Deep State article and make it very clear that they are not fans of it.
And you should have lead with that, because I thought you were referring to him trying to kill that officer and that military man beforehand, which Pacepa referred to. And I’m pretty sure there was no prior instances of JFK being the target twice beforehand. I’ve read the Politically Incorrect Guide to the 1960s, The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History, The Politically Incorrect Guide to Vietnam, and A Patriot’s History of the United States: From Columbus’s Great Discovery to the War on Terror. In fact, I just consulted with the latter two right now to be sure. None of those sources make any reference to any assassination attempts on Kennedy prior to LHO, let alone that he was involved in those two times. If Kennedy had near assassination attempts twice before that one, I’m pretty sure they would have made mention of it, whether it involved Oswald or a third party.
Reports of the prior attempts were classified until recently so there was no knowledge of them. See Ultimate Sacrifice.
The only communist state not completely under Moscow’s thumb was Yugoslavia so I don’t know where the idea of Romania being similar came from. It is known that Albania was allegedly Maoist but I have no knowledge of what that really meant.
Who were LHO’s KGB handlers? When did they meet? Where did they meet? How were its orders transmitted to him?
I know you claim de Mohrenschildt was a KGB agent but I believe he was out of the country at the time of the killing. So who could have activated the plot and Oswald’s actions?
Almost all information about de Mo shows that he was with CIA not KGB. Knowledge of who was working with either agency was, of course, highly compartmentalized and known by almost no one. So any suspicious behavior could be attributed to either. He was obviously tightly connected to the White Russian community in Dallas and with intelligence services here. Was he a double agent? Certainly is possible.
I know that at the very least the Politically Incorrect Guide to the Vietnam War was released in 2010, and going by what Ultimate Sacrifice’s publishing date was, 2008, more likely than not, if that were true, PIG would have mentioned it. Same deal with the Politically Incorrect Guide to the 1960s, which was released a year after Ultimate Sacrifice, and while I have yet to check to be sure since I need to find the latter first, I’m pretty sure it makes absolutely no mention of any assassination attempts prior to LHO’s one in 1964. And reading through the PIG book about Vietnam, I definitely could not find ANY reference to any prior assassinations of Kennedy (and considering the book saw fit to mention Che Guevara in there, I see no reason why it cannot receive at least one mention, especially when it was obviously released after Ultimate Sacrifice came out).
As far as communist states, I’m pretty sure that, technically, China and the USSR didn’t see eye to eye after the latter cut them off from nuclear weapons development. As far as where that came from, try reading up about the time Pacepa defected to the United States, where he revealed Ceausceau’s “Socialism with a new face” was a big fat lie.
As far as his KGB handlers, I can name one: Valery Kostikov, aka, Kostin, and he met him in Mexico City, weeks before the assassination attempt. At least one other person within the KGB that was likely involved in LHO’s mission was Vitaly Gerasimov, whose name had been in LHO’s wallet at the time of the arrest.
So far as de Mohrenschildt, Pacepa already made it pretty clear he was KGB, and in fact, he actually went by THREE identities. When called back in to retestify, he even committed suicide. And his “historical diary” was also forged by the KGB, as was his claims in “I am a patsy! I am a patsy!” If he was a member of the CIA, it was solely to infiltrate it for the KGB.
As far as who activated the plot, it’s simple, Khrushchev. Even when he tried to have him recalled, it’s not out of a change of heart so much as to avoid any other indications that he arranged for assassinations after one of his assassins got busted in West Germany. Another contender is Fidel Castro, who, BTW, actually knew that the assassination was going to happen.
It takes time to pry these documents from the government even after declassification . So don’t expect all books about them to agree. And some do more research than others.
Since all these events took place in my lifetime there is no need to research the times in general.
Since Kostin was alleged to be KGB assassination director in this hemisphere, the fact that “Oswald” went to the Soviet embassy and asked for him specifically means that he was in no way an agent. A real agent would have never done that but an agent provocateur would. There is no legitimate reason that Oswald knew who he was dealing with, supposedly. He could have been informed of the name by American intelligence. But the idea of an agent would draw attention to his handler like that is dead on its face.
BTW “socialism with a new face” was Dubchek in Czechoslovakia not Ceausceau.
Much of what Pacepa contends has been contradicted by other KGB “defectors” so I am doubtful of all of their information. I will read his book, however.
Maybe, but I’m pretty sure those two books would have saw fit to mention them. Two years would have been long enough to get exposure.
So far as Kostin and meeting Oswald in Mexico City, who said that Oswald asked for him? Could just as easily mean that Kostin specifically requested for Oswald, and he then arrived there as planned.
So far as Ceausceau [sp], I know that he publicly embraced Tito’s “independent socialism” until Pacepa exposed that as a lie in Red Horizons, which promptly resulted in Ceausceau’s execution.
Maybe Pacepa’s testimony conflicts with other KGB defectors, but on the other hand, he was directly involved with the disinformation campaign for the Kennedy assassination, so I have every reason to believe him. And if that’s not enough, he was also involved in the disinformation campaign Operation Che, ie, the campaign that catapulted notorious Marxist terrorist Che Guevara to virtual sainthood instead of being remembered as the monster he truly was.
And yes, read that book. Also, Humberto Fontova makes clear that Oswald was more likely than not doing it for the Communists, NOT for any American branch. Probably the only difference between him and Pacepa is that instead of pinning the blame on Khrushchev, he instead pins the blame on Castro. He even cites at least one person for this: Carlos Quiroga, a known anti-Castro fighter, who actually suspected who had truly been responsible since the assassination happened, and even Markus Wolf, former STASI head and considered one of the East’s greatest spymasters, specifically directed someone to Fidel Castro when asked about the Kennedy assassination. You can read it up here:
*http://humanevents.com/2013/11/12/lee-harvey-oswald-was-no-patsy/
And believe me, you can find a LOT more on the internet.
I ordered Pacepa’s book last night.
Another interesting take is that of Dick Russell’s “The Man Who Knew Too Much.” About a guy who claims he was hired to kill Oswald before the assassination.
KGB disinformation tried to pin it on anyone but the Russians and Cubans. But they did not do the killing, it just makes no sense. Oswald or someone pretending to be Oswald went to the Soviet embassy in Mexico City and specifically requested to speak to Kostin. he was also said to have visited the Cuban embassy. NO way would a KGB agent have done that. They would use someone in deep cover to pull off an assassination, not someone under constant surveillance by American Intelligence.
Unless he was being set up for some time there is no way he would have ordered that gun as he did. KGB would have used a totally professional hired killer, one of the best in the world.
His being silenced by Ruby just screams “mafia”.
If they didn’t do the killing, why would they go through with a disinformation campaign just to disavow any involvement? That makes absolutely no sense. You don’t do a disinformation campaign if you had no involvement in the killing to begin with.
Also, I should remind you that he killed General Walker on their orders, so this would not have been the first time the KGB hired him for a hit. In fact, the KGB has sent out PLENTY of assassins directly tied to their department, even having an entire department dedicated to foreign assassinations, Department 13.
And you’re assuming that neither the Russians nor the Cubans would do such a thing just because they feared a nuclear war. Have you EVER considered the possibility that maybe, JUST maybe, the Soviets were willing to do such an action precisely BECAUSE they knew the American government would be reluctant to pin the blame on the Russians after the fiasco in Cuba? That we too were also afraid of a nuclear war?
Also, Jack Ruby was a Cuban operative who most likely conducted the hit to silence Oswald in case he talked, and there’s evidence that Ruby himself was also taken out via poisoning for similar reasons. I’m pretty sure the Mafia does not have access to devices that can poison a person and make it seem as though they died from cancer, which means it could only be either the Soviets or the Cubans.
No, it makes perfect sense particularly when the theory was Lone Assassin. The KGB was smart enough to see that LHO was being tied to the USSR and Cuba and that could easily have blown up in their faces.
How do you get the idea that KGB disinformation efforts are ongoing and cover many areas? They didn’t start or stop with the JFK killing.
He did not kill Walker. KGB would have NEVER had an assassin use that rifle. And almost all the assassins sent out are completely unknown, not running around acting provocatively and implicating USSR and Cuba.
I am assuming that all states act in their best interest and the USSR has never taken out the leader of a major country just on a whim. But particularly when it is redolent of danger with no advantage.
There was NO advantage to this to the USSR.
Your speculation about Ruby is even less convincing. His relation to Cuba was strictly as a Mafia bagman and gun runner at its behest. He had no relation to Castro and no one with any credibility has claimed otherwise.
“No, it makes perfect sense particularly when the theory was Lone Assassin. The KGB was smart enough to see that LHO was being tied to the USSR and Cuba and that could easily have blown up in their faces.”
Not really. If he truly didn’t do it for the KGB, they wouldn’t have even NEEDED to resort to disinformation to hide their ties to him in the first place. I know if I were the USSR and LHO was not tied to me at all, I wouldn’t resort to disinformation precisely because there’s nothing to hide.
“How do you get the idea that KGB disinformation efforts are ongoing and cover many areas? They didn’t start or stop with the JFK killing.”
You just answered your own question. And there are PLENTY of disinformation efforts the KGB has done. Heck, I can even NAME some operations that the KGB has done. Operation Ares, which was the formation of the anti-war movement during Vietnam. Also Operation Che, which involved, what else, turning then-recently deceased Che Guevara into a propaganda hero for Communism and the left.
“He did not kill Walker. KGB would have NEVER had an assassin use that rifle. And almost all the assassins sent out are completely unknown, not running around acting provocatively and implicating USSR and Cuba.”
Actually, he did. His own widow even confirmed it. And for the record, that book I suggested you read, “Programmed to Kill”, actually details the whole modus operandi for the KGB, and considering all the evidence, yes, he is most certainly tied to the KGB.
“There was NO advantage to this to the USSR.”
Neither was putting nukes in Cuba, especially using the argument about how the USSR would be destroyed in a Nuclear War, yet that didn’t stop them or Cuba from doing so. Heck, it didn’t even stop Che Guevara from actively demanding they launch the nukes preemptively for “millions of atomic victims in the name of liberation” despite his most likely being killed as a result of the nuclear war that occurs.
“I am assuming that all states act in their best interest and the USSR has never taken out the leader of a major country just on a whim. But particularly when it is redolent of danger with no advantage.
There was NO advantage to this to the USSR.”
Actually, they have done so. As a matter of fact, just shortly before LHO assassinated Kennedy, a similar plot to assassinate a West German leader actually ended up foiled, which even acted as the first indication that Khrushchev actually ordered for assassinations abroad, which potentially painted Khrushchev in a bad enough light that he immediately demanded for all assassination plans to be halted until things blew over.
“Your speculation about Ruby is even less convincing. His relation to Cuba was strictly as a Mafia bagman and gun runner at its behest. He had no relation to Castro and no one with any credibility has claimed otherwise.”
Not my speculation, actually, it was Pacepa and even Humberto Fontova’s suspicions of what happened, and considering Pacepa’s background in the DIE and by extension the KGB, I’d say he’s reliable there.
In fact, I’ll even give you the name of the KGB assassin who got caught and was undergoing a very public trial in October 1962: Bogdan Stashinsky.
Walker was not killed in the “assassination attempt” against him. The bullet hit a wall in his living room. He survived long enough to get arrested on a morals charge involving a young man.
Assassination is not major business with the KGB, it may be used on occasion, as has the CIA, around the fringes but not against the leaders of major states. Like the Turk said in the Godfather “Blood is a big expense.” And some blood is vastly more expensive than other.
Assassination of defectors and turncoats they did on a regular basis. A Trotsky, yes, against JFK, no.
Pacepa apparently knows nothing of Jack Ruby. This is the weak link in his contentions.
KGB disinformation was ongoing and attempted to turn events in the favor of the USSR. If it could convince the US that JFK was whacked by anti-Castroites or the ultra-right so much the better for them. But they were well aware of the Legend being built up around Oswald, he was toxic.
Nuclear missiles in Cuba was a far different thing and, had they not been discovered in time, their installation would have changed the strategic relation between the USSR and the US. Killing Kennedy changed nothing and would not have been expected to.
Nagell even claims that he was charged by the KGB with killing Oswald prior to the assassination. They were afraid of being blamed for it.
“Walker was not killed in the “assassination attempt” against him. The bullet hit a wall in his living room. He survived long enough to get arrested on a morals charge involving a young man.”
Fine, near-assassination, then. He still did it to prove his worth to his KGB handlers.
“Assassination is not major business with the KGB, it may be used on occasion, as has the CIA, around the fringes but not against the leaders of major states. Like the Turk said in the Godfather “Blood is a big expense.” And some blood is vastly more expensive than other.”
If it’s not a major business with the KGB, please explain why they have an entire division dedicated to it? Something that’s not a major business would not have an entire division dedicated to it.
“Assassination of defectors and turncoats they did on a regular basis. A Trotsky, yes, against JFK, no.”
Actually, they did, and in fact, that book I suggested you read actually gave quite a bit of proof that he was indeed not only in the KGB, but also part of the PGU, the assassination division more specifically. Ceausceau, the dictator of Romania that Pacepa exposed in Red Horizons, even indicated that, including Kennedy, the KGB had been involved in no less than ten assassinations, or assassination attempts, against major foreign leaders (specifically, they were involved in the assassination, or at least attempted assassinations, of Lazlo Rejik and Imre Nagy of Hungary, Lucrietu Patrascanu and Gheorgiu-Dej in Romania, Rudolf Slansky and Jan Masaryk of Czechoslovokai [the president and chief diplomat, respectively], the shah of Iran, Palmiro Togliatti of Italy, and even Mao Zedong of Red China. And that’s not even taking into account Kennedy.). Don’t get me started on the KGB’s later attempt on John Paul II’s life, and Vatican City, being a nation-state, essentially makes him a national leader as Pope. You can read up more on the KGB’s assassinations here: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/219342/kremlins-killing-ways-ion-mihai-pacepa
“Pacepa apparently knows nothing of Jack Ruby. This is the weak link in his contentions.”
Actually, not only does he know quite a bit about Jack Ruby, but he even brings forth evidence that the PGU and Cuban Intelligence had arranged for him to be killed via one of those irradiating umbrellas they had.
“KGB disinformation was ongoing and attempted to turn events in the favor of the USSR. If it could convince the US that JFK was whacked by anti-Castroites or the ultra-right so much the better for them. But they were well aware of the Legend being built up around Oswald, he was toxic.”
Yeah, and they ALSO would have been aware that even ASSOCIATING themselves with, say, Che Guevara, after he actually tried to launch the missiles pre-emptively at America and start World War III during the Cuban Missile Crisis would have been toxic for them. Didn’t stop them from doing an entire disinformation campaign that actually involved making him into a martyr which, by your logic, they would have avoided precisely BECAUSE it would have made them look bad.
“Nuclear missiles in Cuba was a far different thing and, had they not been discovered in time, their installation would have changed the strategic relation between the USSR and the US. Killing Kennedy changed nothing and would not have been expected to.”
You DO realize that Che actually attempted to launch the missiles pre-emptively at the Mainland, right?
“Nagell even claims that he was charged by the KGB with killing Oswald prior to the assassination. They were afraid of being blamed for it.”
For good reason, considering all that evidence in the book from what I could gather definitely makes clear that KGB did indeed train Oswald for such an assignment. If they decided against JFK’s later on, it’s ONLY because of the events of Bohdan Stashynsky getting himself caught in West Germany during an assassination.
You cannot get over the idea that a KGB-trained killer would use that rifle or be as flamboyantly obvious as LHO. Never in a million years. We aren’t talking about The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight but highly skilled professionals
The alleged attempt on Walker apparently involved more than one man so having a KGB handler would not be out of the question, someone else was there as per witnesses. In addition, the fact that he allegedly shot and MISSED a stationary target is further evidence that he would have never been tasked with a much more difficult shot at JFK.
Was he intended to produce a trail of evidence pointing to himself as the killer? I believe so, and that he really did not know who was behind much of what he did. Was he an intelligence agent? Yes. Was he a Double Agent? I don’t know but would not rule it out.
KGB defectors stated that they knew Oswald was an intelligence dangle and wanted no part of him.
Where was he supposedly trained? There is no evidence whatsoever that he practiced with a rifle so his deteriorating marksmanship accelerated.
The only KGB umbrella killing I am aware of was against a defector in whom a poisonous pill was inserted. Ruby was never seen to be running around with an umbrella in jail or not. I don’t even know if it is possible to induce cancer in such a fashion, it isn’t a virus.
Perhaps Che’s wish being thwarted (Castro, the USSR, who know) might have widen the split between him and Castro.
Does Pacepa also reveal that KGB attempted to kill Castro?
You mentioned the attempt to kill the Pope but ignore the fact that it was attempted through the Bulgarian secret police. KBB was sure to keep it at arm’s length, almost impossible to prove. And, unlike JFK, that pope was a deadly threat to the existence of the USSR as subsequent events showed. Their evaluation of his danger was accurate. JFK posed no such threat and the retaliation was oblivion not hand-wringing as would have been the case even had the Pope been killed. There would have been no war in the latter case as their would have been with the former.
I would expect that all intelligence agencies maintain an assassination capacity and including our own (and we can see everyday its ability to spread disinformation) so the existence of such a division within the old KGB is not unusual or surprising to me. Like the Mafia the capacity and willingness to kill is critical to secret organizations. Ten attempts since WW2 shows how infrequently it is used as is ours, heck even the Mafia does not take it lightly.
Ruby was an informant to the FBI and used in various operations by the Mafia/CIA partnership. There is no evidence of any work or relation to Leftist organizations.
People can say anything and make it appear that there is backing for their statement because it is almost impossible to obtain and analyze documents from the Secret World. I am not just talking about Pacepa but the prior defectors as well. And those “working” for us who become public.
There is one certainty about the killing and that is someone or someones has spread as much disinformation as possible about it and enter a world of which most are totally unaware.
We are in a Labyrinth of Manipulated Mirrors. I discuss the Kryptocracy in “Chaos and Mayhem”.
“You cannot get over the idea that a KGB-trained killer would use that rifle or be as flamboyantly obvious as LHO. Never in a million years. We aren’t talking about The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight but highly skilled professionals”
Actually, Pacepa was highly involved with the DIE and, yes, the KGB as well, and besides which also showed PLENTY of evidence of the KGB’s fingerprints all over the assassination. Heck, it even details that Oswald had been recruited by the KGB as early as when he was stationed in Japan, AND that there was evidence that he supplied the Soviets with intel regarding the secret flight path of U2 Spy Planes that resulted in Gary Powers being shot down.
“The alleged attempt on Walker apparently involved more than one man so having a KGB handler would not be out of the question, someone else was there as per witnesses. In addition, the fact that he allegedly shot and MISSED a stationary target is further evidence that he would have never been tasked with a much more difficult shot at JFK. Was he intended to produce a trail of evidence pointing to himself as the killer? I believe so, and that he really did not know who was behind much of what he did. Was he an intelligence agent? Yes. Was he a Double Agent? I don’t know but would not rule it out.”
Again, read the book, there’s PLENTY of evidence showing he was indeed ordered to do so by the KGB. Heck, he even spoke fluent Russian.
“KGB defectors stated that they knew Oswald was an intelligence dangle and wanted no part of him.”
If you’re referring to that highest-ranked KGB officer who defected, he was of the domestic branch, and would not be privy to the 13th Department’s missions due to it not being in their jurisdiction.
“The only KGB umbrella killing I am aware of was against a defector in whom a poisonous pill was inserted. Ruby was never seen to be running around with an umbrella in jail or not. I don’t even know if it is possible to induce cancer in such a fashion, it isn’t a virus.”
That “poisonous pill” involved radiation to such an extent that it looked as though he died from cancer. A LOT of people were killed by this manner to such an extent that Ceausceau even specifically requested for radiation scanners in his office to avert that kind of fate. Not to mention the Mafia doesn’t have access to that kind of method for killing, in any case.
“Perhaps Che’s wish being thwarted (Castro, the USSR, who know) might have widen the split between him and Castro. Does Pacepa also reveal that KGB attempted to kill Castro?”
Don’t think so, not in that book at least. And considering the trouble Che potentially caused, if the Soviets were as consistent with what you claim them to be, they would never have even tried to paint him in a heroic light, and if anything would “erase” him, because doing the former would paint THEM in a bad light especially considering the fact that we nearly entered nuclear war that time.
“You mentioned the attempt to kill the Pope but ignore the fact that it was attempted through the Bulgarian secret police. KBB was sure to keep it at arm’s length, almost impossible to prove. And, unlike JFK, that pope was a deadly threat to the existence of the USSR as subsequent events showed. Their evaluation of his danger was accurate. JFK posed no such threat and the retaliation was oblivion not hand-wringing as would have been the case even had the Pope been killed. There would have been no war in the latter case as their would have been with the former.”
First of all, it’s KGB, not KBB. Second of all, Pacepa made it VERY clear that the KGB was involved in that assassination attempt, and considering he also made it clear that the KGB was definitely involved in the JFK assassination, that means they most certainly had little qualms with killing high officials. Not to mention the guys from Italy would not have been a threat to them, nor would the Shah of Iran.
“I would expect that all intelligence agencies maintain an assassination capacity and including our own (and we can see everyday its ability to spread disinformation) so the existence of such a division within the old KGB is not unusual or surprising to me. Like the Mafia the capacity and willingness to kill is critical to secret organizations. Ten attempts since WW2 shows how infrequently it is used as is ours, heck even the Mafia does not take it lightly.”
Infrequent? The USSR was notorious for trying to slaughter its own under Lenin, Stalin, and even Khrushchev and Brezhnev. Not to mention when Stashovski was caught in West Germany, that led to a PR disaster for Khrushchev. I don’t buy the idea that the KGB’s assassinations were “infrequent.” And for the record, the mere fact that they assassinated the leader of Italy and the Shah of Iran, or at least attempted to, and those two, being part of our sphere of influence, makes clear that they had no qualms with assassinating foreign leaders on our side. Otherwise, to use the whole World War I idea that inspired them to use the disinformation campaign to infer “right-wingers” killed JFK and deflect blame from themselves, even assassinating the Shah of Iran would have us entering World War III due to harming an ally (and yes, the Shah of Iran was indeed one of our own allies), like what happened when Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated by Black Hand and resulted in our entering World War I.
“Ruby was an informant to the FBI and used in various operations by the Mafia/CIA partnership. There is no evidence of any work or relation to Leftist organizations.”
Pacepa lays out evidence in the book that suggests that Jack Ruby had in fact been of Cuban Intelligence, and his dying from cancer was suspicious.
“People can say anything and make it appear that there is backing for their statement because it is almost impossible to obtain and analyze documents from the Secret World. I am not just talking about Pacepa but the prior defectors as well. And those “working” for us who become public.
There is one certainty about the killing and that is someone or someones has spread as much disinformation as possible about it and enter a world of which most are totally unaware.
We are in a Labyrinth of Manipulated Mirrors. I discuss the Kryptocracy in “Chaos and Mayhem”.”
What is clear is that the Mitrokhin archives in 1993, not to mention Boris Yeltsin’s book The Struggle for Russia that was released presumably around the same time Programmed to Kill was released, made it explicit that the KGB was definitely involved with the Kennedy assassination. The only one who is not seeing the evidence is you.
Also, Fontova indicated alongside another Cuban exile that Ruby alongside Oswald were members of the Fair Play for Cuba group, and in fact, Ruby was posing as a reporter and corrected someone when saying he was a member of the “Free Cuba Committee” by giving the actual name, BEFORE he killed Oswald.
And BTW, the CIA has recently declassified some memos dating back to the 1960s, including those relating to the Cuban Missile Crisis, and even those memos already make clear that the Cubans and Soviets were the most likely people to have Oswald assassinate him.
Among the things revealed is that Oswald, on September 28 1964, met with both the Cuban and Soviet embassies to get a path back to the latter to escape the USA. Now ask yourself this, why specifically choose the Cubans and the Soviets as the escape route if he was merely doing a hit for Mafia or even the CIA? Also, Johnson got that report three days after the shootings, meaning he was not likely to have been involved in the hit at all.
Our deepest cover spy, Morris Childs, was in Moscow with the Soviet leadership when JFK was shot. They were riveted to the news and were coming up with all sorts of theories about who could have done it. No one broached the idea that this could possibly be one of their own. And in a rigidly top down system it would be unthinkable.
The Soviets were our great enemy. But they had a grudging respect for American leaders, including for Kennedy. Assassination wasn’t their style. For Castro, that’s a whole different matter and it’s something he would do.
It is the fact that LHO spoke fluent Russian that is an indication that he had intelligence training while in the military and not by the Soviets. His stationing in Japan was precisely to increase the interest of the KGB and expedite their attempts to turn him. Remember his favorite TV show as a kid, “I Led Three Lives”.
Prouty agrees that Oswald may have turned over information about the U2 but claims that was because the Secret Team was determined to blow the planned summit with the USSR. Eisenhower had explicitly forbidden U2 flights over the USSR during the run-up to the summit. But someone thought differently and the hub-bub after the downing caused the summit to be canceled and gave Ike a black eye.
The man in London died within a short time after the poke not two or three years later. If we can believe the autopsy. But do not fool yourself that the Mafia cannot get to people in jail if they want them dead.
Don’t conflate Stalin’s mass murder with KGB selective killings, they are totally different things. Nor am I speaking of people killed there or in the Warsaw Pact. Those are as far from killing the President of the United States as you can get.
WWIII would not have erupted had the Shah been killed.
Che was an icon because he looked cool so young people admired him without knowing much about him. It didn’t take much to bring this about, KGB or otherwise. But that phenomenon was due to the Western culture, the love of the Man of Action and the anti-War movement. A beard, a beret and red star, can’t be beat.
If KGB had a plot to kill JFK, almost no one would know of it. That sort of information is tightly held among VERY few, because of the problem with double-agents and defectors. CIA ran actions JFK had explicitly forbidden and there were those not revealed to the Director, the Attorney General or the President. Not only that but even those involved would not have the whole picture that would explain their actions. And these agencies often play both sides just to see which become dominant.
Don’t be so sure. Pacepa’s boss had mentioned that shortly after Cuba, Khrushchev during a meeting managed to explode and demand that he be killed, and there’s also ample evidence to suggest he had one of Kennedy’s female staffers assassinated around the same time.
And yes, assassinations were very much their style. They even had an entire department in the KGB specifically dedicated for assassinations.
“It is the fact that LHO spoke fluent Russian that is an indication that he had intelligence training while in the military and not by the Soviets. His stationing in Japan was precisely to increase the interest of the KGB and expedite their attempts to turn him. Remember his favorite TV show as a kid, “I Led Three Lives”.”
So? I also liked Star Fox when I was younger and played the arcade games offroad derby and Top Gun at Kid’s Stay and Play, yet I never pursued an interest in becoming a fighter pilot or an offroad driver even though I liked that story enough to actually base one of my stories partially on that franchise. Merely having a favorite TV show doesn’t prove anything. And besides which, I’m pretty sure if he were a CIA plant and not actually defecting, not only would he NOT have explicitly tried to kill JFK at all, but he most certainly wouldn’t make plans to leave the country with an escape path that led directly through Cuba and the USSR (which, BTW, those CIA documents that were declassified two years ago made clear he did).
“Prouty agrees that Oswald may have turned over information about the U2 but claims that was because the Secret Team was determined to blow the planned summit with the USSR. Eisenhower had explicitly forbidden U2 flights over the USSR during the run-up to the summit. But someone thought differently and the hub-bub after the downing caused the summit to be canceled and gave Ike a black eye.”
Yeah, Pacepa indicates differently, actually.
“The man in London died within a short time after the poke not two or three years later. If we can believe the autopsy. But do not fool yourself that the Mafia cannot get to people in jail if they want them dead.”
Not saying the Mafia can’t get to people who are imprisoned if they want them dead. What I’m saying is killing him by irradiating him would not have been their style. Usually, they resort to something like, I don’t know, a shiv, or at least something that looked “accidental,” not “looked like he died from cancer.”
“WWIII would not have erupted had the Shah been killed.”
People thought the same thing about World War I and Archduke Ferdinand, yet look what happened. And BTW, if I were the United States and the USSR managed to assassinate any of those guys on our side, we would have immediately declared World War III precisely because they harmed an ally.
“Che was an icon because he looked cool so young people admired him without knowing much about him. It didn’t take much to bring this about, KGB or otherwise. But that phenomenon was due to the Western culture, the love of the Man of Action and the anti-War movement. A beard, a beret and red star, can’t be beat.”
Except Che would have been one of those guys in Cuba who tried to nuke us to death. And it’s not exactly a secret he tried to do so, as the London Daily Worker had him actually stating that was what was to happen if the nukes were kept in Cuba in the immediate aftermath of the crisis. That would have been a black mark against the USSR to even lionize him. Not to mention a lot of the people who grew to lionize him with the start of Operation Che would have been young enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, meaning they wouldn’t have been the types to lionize Che unless they actually WANTED America to be nuked in the first place. Even if I were of the anti-War generation, I would NOT root for Che precisely BECAUSE I’d know this. If I were that generation, and they tried to pull it on me, I would not fall for it precisely BECAUSE I would have known enough about the Cuban Missile Crisis to know that Che was involved.
“If KGB had a plot to kill JFK, almost no one would know of it. That sort of information is tightly held among VERY few, because of the problem with double-agents and defectors. CIA ran actions JFK had explicitly forbidden and there were those not revealed to the Director, the Attorney General or the President. Not only that but even those involved would not have the whole picture that would explain their actions. And these agencies often play both sides just to see which become dominant.”
The fact that the KGB had a “historical diary” for Oswald, him using code words in a letter to the KGB handlers regarding “friends” and “red cross”, had PGU training, and the like more than makes clear that, no, he did genuinely defect to the USSR. And the fact that they even BOTHERED to do a disinformation campaign (a disinformation campaign that Pacepa had direct involvement in the planning of, BTW) makes clear they were involved. Not to mention there have been a few instances where KGB assassinations despite being compartmentalized managed to get exposed. Like, for example, Stashinsky in West Germany. Or even the attempt on Mao Zedong’s life during the 1970s. Even Ceausceau was pretty sure the KGB was involved in JFK’s assassination, considering he listed him among the people the KGB attempted to have assassinated, and he was one of their allies and very much paranoid for his life.
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