Vote to leave EU would 'condemn Britain to irrelevance', say historians

theguardian.com ^ | 25 May 2016 | Heather Stewart

[Berlin_Freeper]

More than 300 prominent historians, including Simon Schama and Niall Ferguson, are warning voters that if they choose to leave the European Union on 23 June they will condemn Britain to irrelevance.

In a letter to the Guardian, the academics and writers argue that the referendum offers a chance to underscore the “irreplaceable role” Britain has played, and should continue to play, in Europe’s history.

“As historians of Britain and of Europe, we believe that Britain has had in the past, and will have in the future, an irreplaceable role to play in Europe,” the letter says.

“On 23 June, we face a choice: to cast ourselves adrift, condemning ourselves to irrelevance and Europe to division and weakness; or to reaffirm our commitment to the EU and stiffen the cohesion of our continent in a dangerous world.”

[Psalm 144]

Better than oblivion.

[Utmost Certainty]

That’s like saying in 1940 “if the UK were to fight Nazi Germany by itself, it’d be consigning itself to historical irrelevance.”

[b4its2late]

Ha Historians... Like Doris Goodwin? She sucks...

[fieldmarshaldj]

“Historians” = “Leftist Propagandists”

If the UK wants to survive, it’s time for them to leave the EU.

[antceecee]

Correct. Britain should retain their autonomy... Strength and individualism.

[Berlin_Freeper]

Gordon Brown sets out ‘positive’ case for the EU
His intervention in the European debate is a conscious attempt to repeat his impassioned speeches in favour of the union in the Scottish independence referendum in 2014.

Nigel Farage tells his battle bus followers to 'bully people' into voting Brexit
"Go out and persuade people, bully people. go round the parks, the clubs, your family, and get them to vote to take back our country. We want our country back!"

[SunkenCiv]

Headline spin alert.

Here’s a related topic / counterpoint:

Britain ‘could liberate Europe again’ by voting for Brexit and sparking populist revolution
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3433668/posts

[Berlin_Freeper]

coup

[stocksthatgoup]

Historian? lol

[octex]

Just talking here without relevant detailed facts... Just an off-the-cuff opinion.

The USA funds about 25-30% of the UN and only manages to retain a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, with no other benefits to the USA. The USA provides most of the funding and support to NATO, with very little benefit in return. ........There are 193 countries in the UN. It’s ridiculous for the USA to be paying so much more to the UN than the other members! Make the UN move out of the USA!

Great Britain is spending tons of money to support the EU and the EU does little or nothing to support GB, but it increasingly asks for more liberal changes and money.

Brexit would permit GB to spend more in repairing their failing economy and society, as well as rebuilding their military forces. ...........Would be tough to do, since it seems the Parliament there has been taken over by extreme liberals who enjoy giving council housing to Islamic terrorists who rape their children.

[Tennessee Nana]

Good grief...

for many years England was so important and had such vast lands that “the sun never set on the British Empire”

she was literately the leader of the free world..

and no other European country could touch what she was...

and all without the help of those same European countries...and often in spite of them...

the stupidest thing England has done in modern days is to align herself so thoroughly with countries who at one time could not hold a candle to her magnificence...

Escape from them she must if England is to survive as a nation..a sovereign nation standing on her own..

and not just one of an untidy disorganized clump of servient city states joined together by intimidation and greed of their masters rather than an independent, strong and separate country in their own right, governing themselves..

[Ulysse]

Owned “historians” ??

STFU please

[faithhopecharity]

U.K. Is both irrelevant to history and headed for complete subjugation inside the EU dictatorship - not - very - well - disguised - anymore. Can Great Britain cut free it’s EU chains before they choke her completely?

[4Liberty]

more cowbell.

[Cronos]

It is not a simple black and white matter -- leaving "Europe" is not an option for the UK, but leaving the "EU" is and is a bad one.

Let me explain:

• The EU as a free-trade zone with free travel works and is very, very good with low tariffs etc
• the EU as an economic union is 50:50 working -- NOTE that I'm separating out the Euro situation. The economic union as in collective bargaining against giant US, India, China etc. is effective
• The euro is a mess, but the idea of a common currency does make some sense - it's implementation hasn't been good
• A political union is again, good and bad -- the good is that it gets European nations talking to each other instead of fighting, the bad is when they try to create a mega-state. the mega-state won't work. They need to create a highly federated federation: like Spain or Germany or India
• The UK is part of Europe -- it can't ignore its largest market and neighbour
• The UK has always been concerned with Europe -- since the 1600s it's aim has been to ensure that no one state is the most powerful
• the UK inside the EU has been a force against the centralizign force of France-Germany
• The UK outside the EU loses that ability and gets only the disadvantages

I believe the referendum is good, and the STAY vote will win and it will scare the centralizing tendency folks away

[Cronos]

No, it's not the same, in fact your statement is the exact opposite of what the UK did

A brexit would be akin to the UK saying in 1940 "we will be neutral" -- a UK outside the EU has no ability to influence the EU and many EU member states (like POland, Hungary) have looked at the UK as a way to balance the Franco-German axis

[Cronos]

No, it's not the same, in fact your statement is the exact opposite of what the UK did

If Brexit happens, then SCotland will break away and you will have just England (Welsh nationalists would also break away, albeit reluctantly) -- England would be a small country with no agricultural or manufacturing base and heavily reliant on financial services -- and those financial services will move away: to european bourses and to Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong and New York

The UK would be consigned to further slip into irrelevance -- like Rome in the 12th century...

[Laser_Ray]

I hate to break it to her but with the notable exception of defending the Falkland Islands, England pretty much is already irrelevant. Any such move now is a vote to save something from what’s left.

Their empire is gone, their colonies are gone (a fair few condemned to tribal poverty and violence in the absense of their Judeo-Christian rulers) their military might is a joke, their crime rates are through the stratosphere, their citizens have very few more rights than medieval times, and their nation is practically a Muslim outpost due to PC bullshittery on immigration and a collapsing native birthrate.

[Cronos]

What autonomy? England would be a small country that would be heavily reliant on the good-will of the EU and the US. Right now it can negotiate with the US or China or Russia as a member of the EU with that combined negotiating power

As just england, it would have little more negotiating power than NOrway -- and note that Norway has to follow ALL the EU rules, pay in to the EU money and has ZERO say in the rule making. That's a bad deal

England has only the financial services industry to rely on and that would shrink in the event of Brexit -- and England would be dependent on the EU letting the provide financial services to EU clients.

No, leaving the EU would weaken England irrevocably. And for individualism, they would have even less individualism when they have to kow-tow to the demands of the EU, US, China, India, Russia etc. separately as a middling power