Posted on 01/25/2016 9:35:02 AM PST by fishtank
Rapid Erosion Supports Creation Model
by Frank Sherwin, M.A. | Jan. 25, 2016
Recently in Dorset, England, bad weather washed a massive section of a cliff into the sea revealing scores of ammonite fossils.1,2 Creation scientists are interested in this cliff fall because substantial erosion was accomplished in literally seconds. It didn't take hundreds of thousands to millions of years of slow and gradual erosion.
The cliff fall at Dorset isn't the only recent example of rapid and significant erosion. Uniformitarian geologists claim the famous White Cliffs of Dover, composed of calcium carbonate, were formed in the Cretaceous Period between 65 and 140 million years ago. But there is evidence of significant fracturing every decade or so causing authorities to urge visitors to stay far away from the cliff edge lest they topple into the ocean when the rocks give way. In 2001, a huge chunk fell into the English Channel followed by another large section in 2012. Uniformitarian geologists estimate 0.39 inches of cliff erosion per year. But we're seeing a lot—far too much—catastrophic erosion of these cliffs over a short time. At this catastrophic erosion rate, the White Cliffs of Dover would disappear in much less than a million years.
(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...
creationism dovetails nicely with evolutionary theory
My thinking is similar to yours.
Sometimes major fall events happen without any of these factors being present. Erosion from running water and repeated freeze/thaw cycles fractures and weakens rock over long periods of time, setting up conditions for major fall events. You have to eliminate that before you can attribute it exclusively to the concurrent events.
Hmm, due it’s the discrete nature of the origin of species I go with the instantaneous creation of species which then evolve over time due to natural selection which is more analog in nature.
“creation days seem to lack noons and afternoons”
That’s just the way the jews reckoned days, the day began at sundown and ended at sundown the next day. The word translated as “morning” from the Hebrew doesn’t just mean morning, but can mean the entire “next day” following the evening.
I’m glad to see you’re at least willing to consider the possibility of YEC. It’s apparently become acceptable on FR to try to shout down and scorn people who believe in it. Sad.
For me, it’s a faith issue. God owns us, and can therefore eternally and mercifully reward righteousness and eternally and mercilessly punish depravity. And the reason He owns us is because He created us. By claiming He didn’t create us, I think ultimately those who espouse this view are trying to remove Him from the eternal punishment business. But that won’t work out for them.
Claiming this robs Him of glory that He alone deserves. He had to violate the 1st Law of Thermodynamics by creating matter/energy in the first place.
If God only spoke of creation in Genesis, it would’ve been enough for me. But He spoke throughout Scripture of the fact that He created, including several passages even in Revelation:
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
(Greek ktizo=created=fabricated)
Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
(Greek ktizo=created=fabricated)
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
(Greek poieo=made)
Other passages in the NT include Matthew 19:4, Mark 10:6, Mark 13:19, John 1:3-10, Acts 14:15, Acts 17:24, Acts 17:26, Rom. 1:20, 1 Cor. 11:9, Eph. 3:9, Col. 1:16, Heb. 1:2, Heb. 11:3, etc.
It’s very strange that written history can be traced back only as far as would fit within a YEC viewpoint. Adam would’ve been created with an apparent age, as would everything else. And Einstein’s general theory of relativity and its potential for a white hole at the beginning of the universe can possibly solve the problem of starlight and time.
It all comes down to beginning assumptions. I choose to assume Scripture is true and every man who denies it is a liar.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Sounds very much like the descent into belief in evolution.
With all of our technology and scientific discoveries we can’t recreate a single cell creature EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW EXACTLY HOW THEY WORK.
True. The things I listed were just stuff I could think of at the moment. The freeze/thaw thing also plays a role in rock slides in some areas.
Re: freeze/thaw
Water seeps into the cracks and crevices, freezes and expands (like a soda bottle left too long in the freezer), burst, and splits the rock apart. Heating from the sun also expands rock, which then cools and contracts at night. Repeated cycles of this also weakens and breaks down rock.
And if that's a critical part of he erosion process, then you can't really have "rapid erosion".
2. Perhaps not, but earlier measure had it faster, perhaps erroneously.
3. Read Genesis 1, 5 & 11, and do the math.
4. Then why ignore the plain reading and meaning? Perhaps your observations and subsequent conclusions of the universe could be flawed? Is that not as plausible as my "misunderstanding" of plainly written scripture?
There are many forms of erosion, some near instant, others over thousands or millions of years. In any case, it's rapid as opposed to the usual erosion process. Boulders can and do break free from cliff sides rather rapidly as a result of freeze-expansion.
Does the process of getting that boulder to the bottom of the cliff include all the prior erosion it took to get it exposed at the cliff face?
Mass wasting- the geologic term for erosion on a grand scale is a simple function of time, erosive agent, and eroded material.
If you have enough erosive agent, time is reduced dramatically ( exponentially actually, based on a the additive effect of erosive agent plus eroded material aggregating the erosive effect).
Imagine an enormous rain storm that dumps millions of billion of tons on water on the earths surface, and begins flowing downhill- imagine rocks, clasts, clods and fine mixed in that rushing abrasive mix moving at perhaps a hundred miles per hour for months- no imagine the Rockies 5000 feet higher than they are now, can you see the cannular and laminar sheeting flow cutting through hundreds of feet of material in a short period? Okay, back off the volume by a function of a million, add a function of millenia.... Which one is plausible? Both/either?
Problem is, man wasn’t there to see it happen, so the only answer science now has to offer is the one that denies what is written in most cultures antiquity history- a great flood of immense ( biblical) proportions, because otherwise they would have to acknowledge a Creator, and be liable to Him.
Yes, I accept a young earth history and a First Person Cause. His name is Jesus! He and the Father are One- “I am that I am”.
Not as a storm, flood or earthquake might. But even there, a landscape has always been previously modified by earlier periods of erosion. It’s an ongoing, continuous process.
Indeed. The YEC theory seems to posit that you can remove nearly all of the cyclic thermal stresses and periods of slow erosion that would be present under Old Earth theory, and still have the same end result from just a relatively few major events.
Many if not most forms of erosion leave tell-tale signs behind indicating what process it was. The products of the really slow ones would look differently in some respects than those of the rapid or catastrophic forms, such as floods and storms.
Can you submit with any degree of certainty that the effects of a rapid erosion event precipitated by another catastrophic event would be the same regardless of whether it was preceded by hundreds or thousands of years of slow erosion and thermal cycles or not?
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