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Rapid Erosion Supports Creation Model
Institute for Creation Research ^ | Jan. 25, 2016 | Frank Sherwin

Posted on 01/25/2016 9:35:02 AM PST by fishtank

Rapid Erosion Supports Creation Model

by Frank Sherwin, M.A. | Jan. 25, 2016

Recently in Dorset, England, bad weather washed a massive section of a cliff into the sea revealing scores of ammonite fossils.1,2 Creation scientists are interested in this cliff fall because substantial erosion was accomplished in literally seconds. It didn't take hundreds of thousands to millions of years of slow and gradual erosion.

The cliff fall at Dorset isn't the only recent example of rapid and significant erosion. Uniformitarian geologists claim the famous White Cliffs of Dover, composed of calcium carbonate, were formed in the Cretaceous Period between 65 and 140 million years ago. But there is evidence of significant fracturing every decade or so causing authorities to urge visitors to stay far away from the cliff edge lest they topple into the ocean when the rocks give way. In 2001, a huge chunk fell into the English Channel followed by another large section in 2012. Uniformitarian geologists estimate 0.39 inches of cliff erosion per year. But we're seeing a lot—far too much—catastrophic erosion of these cliffs over a short time. At this catastrophic erosion rate, the White Cliffs of Dover would disappear in much less than a million years.

(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: dorset; erosion; yosemite
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To: Oceander

creationism dovetails nicely with evolutionary theory


41 posted on 01/25/2016 11:00:06 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Atheism is like fish that disbelieve in water.

Oo-o-o-k. Inanity won't save creationism from it's well-deserved status as liberal-level stupidity.
42 posted on 01/25/2016 11:02:29 AM PST by Oceander
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To: central_va
creationism dovetails nicely with evolutionary theory

Only to the extent that stupidity can be said to dovetail with rational thought.
43 posted on 01/25/2016 11:03:17 AM PST by Oceander
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To: HiTech RedNeck

My thinking is similar to yours.


44 posted on 01/25/2016 11:09:20 AM PST by mikeus_maximus
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To: ETL
Most geologic erosion occurs over short periods of time, via storms, floods, earthquakes, etc.

Sometimes major fall events happen without any of these factors being present. Erosion from running water and repeated freeze/thaw cycles fractures and weakens rock over long periods of time, setting up conditions for major fall events. You have to eliminate that before you can attribute it exclusively to the concurrent events.

45 posted on 01/25/2016 11:17:23 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Oceander

Hmm, due it’s the discrete nature of the origin of species I go with the instantaneous creation of species which then evolve over time due to natural selection which is more analog in nature.


46 posted on 01/25/2016 11:19:50 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“creation days seem to lack noons and afternoons”

That’s just the way the jews reckoned days, the day began at sundown and ended at sundown the next day. The word translated as “morning” from the Hebrew doesn’t just mean morning, but can mean the entire “next day” following the evening.


47 posted on 01/25/2016 11:20:23 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I’m glad to see you’re at least willing to consider the possibility of YEC. It’s apparently become acceptable on FR to try to shout down and scorn people who believe in it. Sad.

For me, it’s a faith issue. God owns us, and can therefore eternally and mercifully reward righteousness and eternally and mercilessly punish depravity. And the reason He owns us is because He created us. By claiming He didn’t create us, I think ultimately those who espouse this view are trying to remove Him from the eternal punishment business. But that won’t work out for them.

Claiming this robs Him of glory that He alone deserves. He had to violate the 1st Law of Thermodynamics by creating matter/energy in the first place.

If God only spoke of creation in Genesis, it would’ve been enough for me. But He spoke throughout Scripture of the fact that He created, including several passages even in Revelation:

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

(Greek ktizo=created=fabricated)

Rev 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

(Greek ktizo=created=fabricated)

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

(Greek poieo=made)

Other passages in the NT include Matthew 19:4, Mark 10:6, Mark 13:19, John 1:3-10, Acts 14:15, Acts 17:24, Acts 17:26, Rom. 1:20, 1 Cor. 11:9, Eph. 3:9, Col. 1:16, Heb. 1:2, Heb. 11:3, etc.

It’s very strange that written history can be traced back only as far as would fit within a YEC viewpoint. Adam would’ve been created with an apparent age, as would everything else. And Einstein’s general theory of relativity and its potential for a white hole at the beginning of the universe can possibly solve the problem of starlight and time.

It all comes down to beginning assumptions. I choose to assume Scripture is true and every man who denies it is a liar.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Sounds very much like the descent into belief in evolution.


48 posted on 01/25/2016 11:20:31 AM PST by afsnco
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To: Oceander

With all of our technology and scientific discoveries we can’t recreate a single cell creature EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW EXACTLY HOW THEY WORK.


49 posted on 01/25/2016 11:23:04 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: tacticalogic
Sometimes major fall events happen without any of these factors being present. Erosion from running water and repeated freeze/thaw cycles fractures and weakens rock over long periods of time.

True. The things I listed were just stuff I could think of at the moment. The freeze/thaw thing also plays a role in rock slides in some areas.

50 posted on 01/25/2016 11:40:56 AM PST by ETL (Ted Cruz 2016!! -- For a better, safer America)
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To: tacticalogic

Re: freeze/thaw

Water seeps into the cracks and crevices, freezes and expands (like a soda bottle left too long in the freezer), burst, and splits the rock apart. Heating from the sun also expands rock, which then cools and contracts at night. Repeated cycles of this also weakens and breaks down rock.


51 posted on 01/25/2016 11:48:04 AM PST by ETL (Ted Cruz 2016!! -- For a better, safer America)
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To: ETL
Water seeps into the cracks and crevices, freezes and expands (like a soda bottle left too long in the freezer), burst, and splits the rock apart. Heating from the sun also expands rock, which then cools and contracts at night. Repeated cycles of this also weakens and breaks down rock.

And if that's a critical part of he erosion process, then you can't really have "rapid erosion".

52 posted on 01/25/2016 11:52:42 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: MeganC
1. I did not say permanently

2. Perhaps not, but earlier measure had it faster, perhaps erroneously.

3. Read Genesis 1, 5 & 11, and do the math.

4. Then why ignore the plain reading and meaning? Perhaps your observations and subsequent conclusions of the universe could be flawed? Is that not as plausible as my "misunderstanding" of plainly written scripture?

53 posted on 01/25/2016 11:57:27 AM PST by jimmyray (there is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse)
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To: tacticalogic
And if that's a critical part of the erosion process, then you can't really have "rapid erosion".

There are many forms of erosion, some near instant, others over thousands or millions of years. In any case, it's rapid as opposed to the usual erosion process. Boulders can and do break free from cliff sides rather rapidly as a result of freeze-expansion.

54 posted on 01/25/2016 12:14:27 PM PST by ETL (Ted Cruz 2016!! -- For a better, safer America)
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To: ETL
There are many forms of erosion, some near instant, others over thousands or millions of years. In any case, it's rapid as opposed to the usual erosion process. Boulders can and do break free from cliff sides rather rapidly as a result of freeze-expansion.

Does the process of getting that boulder to the bottom of the cliff include all the prior erosion it took to get it exposed at the cliff face?

55 posted on 01/25/2016 12:20:54 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: fishtank

Mass wasting- the geologic term for erosion on a grand scale is a simple function of time, erosive agent, and eroded material.

If you have enough erosive agent, time is reduced dramatically ( exponentially actually, based on a the additive effect of erosive agent plus eroded material aggregating the erosive effect).

Imagine an enormous rain storm that dumps millions of billion of tons on water on the earths surface, and begins flowing downhill- imagine rocks, clasts, clods and fine mixed in that rushing abrasive mix moving at perhaps a hundred miles per hour for months- no imagine the Rockies 5000 feet higher than they are now, can you see the cannular and laminar sheeting flow cutting through hundreds of feet of material in a short period? Okay, back off the volume by a function of a million, add a function of millenia.... Which one is plausible? Both/either?

Problem is, man wasn’t there to see it happen, so the only answer science now has to offer is the one that denies what is written in most cultures antiquity history- a great flood of immense ( biblical) proportions, because otherwise they would have to acknowledge a Creator, and be liable to Him.

Yes, I accept a young earth history and a First Person Cause. His name is Jesus! He and the Father are One- “I am that I am”.


56 posted on 01/25/2016 12:24:58 PM PST by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: tacticalogic

Not as a storm, flood or earthquake might. But even there, a landscape has always been previously modified by earlier periods of erosion. It’s an ongoing, continuous process.


57 posted on 01/25/2016 12:28:46 PM PST by ETL (Ted Cruz 2016!! -- For a better, safer America)
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To: ETL
Not as a storm, flood or earthquake might. But even there, a landscape has always been previously modified by earlier periods of erosion. It’s an ongoing, continuous process.

Indeed. The YEC theory seems to posit that you can remove nearly all of the cyclic thermal stresses and periods of slow erosion that would be present under Old Earth theory, and still have the same end result from just a relatively few major events.

58 posted on 01/25/2016 12:49:38 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Many if not most forms of erosion leave tell-tale signs behind indicating what process it was. The products of the really slow ones would look differently in some respects than those of the rapid or catastrophic forms, such as floods and storms.


59 posted on 01/25/2016 1:08:35 PM PST by ETL (Ted Cruz 2016!! -- For a better, safer America)
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To: ETL
The products of the really slow ones would look differently in some respects than those of the rapid or catastrophic forms, such as floods and storms.

Can you submit with any degree of certainty that the effects of a rapid erosion event precipitated by another catastrophic event would be the same regardless of whether it was preceded by hundreds or thousands of years of slow erosion and thermal cycles or not?

60 posted on 01/25/2016 1:18:21 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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