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Second Shroud Discovered Vatican Veronica Veil
Gloria tv ^ | 3/2/2015 | purcre

Posted on 02/02/2015 6:34:59 PM PST by purcre

Vincenzo Giovanni Ruello an experimental photographer from Australia has discovered what he claims to be the second shroud in existance in 2011 when he processed the Vatican Veronica Veil. The disturbing images show an identical face to the Shroud of Turin but tortured and battered with an eye bashed closed, fractured cheek,severe bruising. Gloria tv is screening the historical discovery never since Secondo Pia in 1898 has the world seen such images. http://gloria.tv/media/1cbGFGbq6Je


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: medievalhoax; shroud; shroudofturin; sudariumofoviedo; turin; veil; veronica; veronicaveil
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To: Swordmaker

Thanks for the ping!


41 posted on 02/02/2015 8:55:38 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: MNDude
I met the official photographer of the Shroud. He was completely convinced the Shroud is authentic, although oddly enough he remains an unconverted Jew. Although he said there is no truth to there being any pollen on the shroud.

I too have talked to Barry Schwortz and I really doubt he would claim that in light of the multiple sticky tape samples have been taken from the Shroud with pollen on them and Barry is completely aware of these. I've had extended conversations with Barry. . . and I am cited on Shroud.com.

It is just false to state there are no pollen on the Shroud. There would be normal environmental pollen from years of exposition out in the public.

In addition, Barry is completely aware of Dr. Avanoam Danin's paper on the subject. Dr. Danin, is the foremost expert on the biology of plants in the Jerusalem Area. Dr. Danin is Professor of Plant Biology in the Department of Evolution, Systematics, and Ecology at The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Sciences, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Israel. The paper, written with Uri Baruch, a Palynology expert, is hosted on Barry's site: FLORISTIC INDICATORS FOR THE ORIGIN OF THE SHROUD OF TURIN, in which he and Baruch identifies 204 species of pollen found on the Shroud along with flowers and other plants images ON the Shroud, some of which have been extinct for over 1500 years, which are only native to areas around Jerusalem. Barry would not deny science he is not expert in.

Currently, it is likely there are no longer pollen on the Shroud since in 2002, Madame Mechtild Fleury-Lemberg did an ill-advised "restoration" of the Shroud of Turin, which also involved vacuuming it and washing it. . . at well as cleaning it, thereby removing anything that may have been imbedded on the surface or in the fibers. Barry like most Shroud researchers was not advised this was going to happen until after it was done. . . and was aghast at the loss of extant evidence this woman removed, including pollen, dust, fibers, etc., years of accumulated evidence of where the Shroud had travelled. Perhaps that is what Barry was referring to when he told you there were no pollen on the Shroud.

42 posted on 02/02/2015 9:00:25 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: WVNan
That is the way I read it. I do know that when a Jewish body was laid in a tomb it was placed on a long piece of cloth that was then folded from the top of the head down to the feet. Then a second cloth was placed over the head to hold down the shroud. When the Disciples went into the tomb they found it empty and the head cloth had been folded and placed on the stone where Jesus had laid. So there were two cloths. There is some history about the face cloth being displayed over a gate in Constantinople. See “The Blood and the Shroud” by Ian Wilson.

That second cloth would be the Sudarium of Oviedo. . . not this cloth.

43 posted on 02/02/2015 9:01:49 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: .45 Long Colt; ifinnegan
Apparently we are to believe those pictures of old popes kneeling before the Shroud, kissing the Shroud, and bowing before the Shroud aren’t evidence of idolatry.

That is not idolatry. That is called "Veneration." Look it up. Respect for something believed to have been left behind by Jesus Christ himself as a testimony of what happened. You use the term "idolatry" as a pejorative. if you had possession of the Robe that Jesus wore while preaching and spreading God's word, would you spit on it or venerate it?

He told Thomas to put his fingers into the wounds in his side. . . so that he would believe. Why not accept that perhaps he left behind a testament to his death and resurrection?

44 posted on 02/02/2015 9:10:37 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: purcre
The Shroud of Turin is BS. If some divine light created the shroud, why does the Turin shroud show a one-dimensional face? Try painting a head/body completely around and then laying a cloth over it to absorb the paint. The very front of the face may be similar, but the areas wrapped on the sides would be distorted once layed flat. The Shroud of Turin doesn't show that distortion.

So god shot his light on just the very front part of the shroud? Is that the deal?
Disclaimer: I believe Jesus existed and was probably the best human to inhabit this rock. I don't believe he was a son of god nor a miracle worker. Reason being is because at the time people still believed the world to be flat and that the Sun revolved around the Earth. I can give many other examples.

45 posted on 02/02/2015 9:46:24 PM PST by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever)
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To: Vermont Lt

So Catholics , such as myself who believe in the lives of the saints and miracles are ‘’rabble’’?


46 posted on 02/02/2015 9:52:11 PM PST by jmacusa (Liberalism defined: When mom and dad go away for the weekend and the kids are in charge.)
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To: Swordmaker

Someday when you have time, delve into the etymology of “venerate.” The Latin root means to worship or adore. I’m sure you can find long documents explaining why venerating and worshipping are different acts. Regardless, Rome has a long history of treating created things as if they were due the reverence of the Creator.

As for such a robe, I would likely burn it lest it be a stumbling block for sinners prone to the worship of material things instead of the Lord. The Lord is to be worshipped in spirit and truth.

By the way, Jesus also told Thomas: “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” Christians are to walk by faith, not by sight! (2 Cor 5:7)


47 posted on 02/02/2015 10:01:34 PM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: ifinnegan
What do people do?

They are moved by the story perhaps, even if realizing it may be only traditional and not biblical.

48 posted on 02/02/2015 10:06:34 PM PST by firebrand
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To: JudyinCanada
On one of the Stations of the Cross, Veronica runs up to Jesus and wipes his face with her veil. It is not another Shroud of Turin.

Stations of the Cross [Catholic Caucus] (Prayer)
Good Friday stations pray for Christian unity in Middle East (Pope to lead Via Crucis)
Pope Francis’ Via Crucis at the Colosseum: full text of meditations
Stations of the Cross
Stations of the Cross
Stations of the Cross date back to the fourth century
Stations of the cross - Way of the cross [Devotional]
The Cross as a Journey: The Stations of the Cross for Worship (Christian Caucus)
Stations of the Cross [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Thousands contemplate the saving power of the Cross during Way of the Cross in Rome
"WAY OF THE CROSS" AT COLOSSEUM (Part 2) - 2006

WAY OF THE CROSS COLOSEUM PART 1-2006
Way of the Cross to Focus on Loss of Sense of Sin
Stations of the Cross - In the Light of the Shroud
The Way of the Cross, with Prayerful Meditations authored by Saint Francis of Assisi
Stations of the Cross Through Poetry
The Way of The Cross - a devotional reflection on Christ's Passion
(Then) Cardinal Ratzinger's Meditations for the Stations of the Cross
A Few of FR's Finest...Every Day...The Stations of the Cross
The Holy Season of Lent -- The Stations of the Cross
Stations of the Cross

49 posted on 02/02/2015 10:21:42 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: .45 Long Colt
As for such a robe, I would likely burn it lest it be a stumbling block for sinners prone to the worship of material things instead of the Lord. The Lord is to be worshipped in spirit and truth.

God protect us from people like you and Muslims. . . who have the identical mindset. Destroy what you don't believe others should do. You do not understand worship at all. You only think you do.

50 posted on 02/02/2015 10:22:17 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: A Navy Vet

“I don’t believe he was a son of god nor a miracle worker. Reason being is because at the time people still believed the world to be flat and that the Sun revolved around the Earth.”

Not sure how people not yet understanding the shape of the world or that the sun wasn’t going around the earth should have anything to do with whether or not he could have been the Son of God. If he’d some just before the Wright Bros flew that airplane, would you say he couldn’t have been the Son of God because man didn’t know he could fly yet?

I don’t see what the level of knowledge the people had at the time Jesus may have been here has to do with whether or not He was who He said He was. If He actually comes today, our current state of scientific knowledge won’t have a thing to do with who HE is. It just doesn’t follow.


51 posted on 02/02/2015 10:25:23 PM PST by bluejean (The lunatics are running the asylum)
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To: A Navy Vet
The Shroud of Turin is BS. If some divine light created the shroud, why does the Turin shroud show a one-dimensional face? Try painting a head/body completely around and then laying a cloth over it to absorb the paint. The very front of the face may be similar, but the areas wrapped on the sides would be distorted once layed flat. The Shroud of Turin doesn't show that distortion.

Ah, but it isn't, nor is it a photograph. The Shroud cloth was supported at the sides so it was not draped over the head as you assume. The hair was pushed forward by a cloth under the chin and hair, tied around the head to keep the jaw closed in death. This somewhat supported the cloth across the face. And as I said, it is NOT a photograph, it's a perfectly vertically collimated, three-dimensional terrain map projected onto two-dimensions with the data encoded in the cloth in analog data by the gradient of the image density being proportionate to the distance of cloth to body, combined with contact human blood and serus fluid stains.

By the way, there image areas contain no pigments.

So god shot his light on just the very front part of the shroud? Is that the deal?

The image exist both frontal and dorsal, as though whatever caused the image went straight up and down through the body, but not at all side-to-side. Collimated . . . and the images shows things it by rights should not be able to show, such as the carpal bones in the hands, the teeth in the mouth, behind the lips and mustache, and the orbital sockets of the eyes, . . . It's not 2-dimensional like a photograph at all as the image reconstructs in a VP-8 image analyzer to a 3-dimensional image of a human being. No mere photograph or painting can do that.

Disclaimer: I believe Jesus existed and was probably the best human to inhabit this rock. I don't believe he was a son of god nor a miracle worker. Reason being is because at the time people still believed the world to be flat and that the Sun revolved around the Earth. I can give many other examples.

The beliefs of the people in the first Century about Cosmology or Geography have zero to do with the divinity or nature of Jesus. As a matter of fact, many people of the era did think the Earth was round. Your thinking in that area is a non sequitur.

52 posted on 02/02/2015 10:47:41 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: JudyinCanada

there aren’t ‘two’ shrouds - this one is purported to be the veil that is placed over the face before the shroud - it shouldn’t be called a shroud -

and this is pretty lame for evidence


53 posted on 02/02/2015 11:26:34 PM PST by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does - by their fruits ye shall know them.)
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To: .45 Long Colt
Someday when you have time, delve into the etymology of “venerate.” The Latin root means to worship or adore. I’m sure you can find long documents explaining why venerating and worshipping are different acts. Regardless, Rome has a long history of treating created things as if they were due the reverence of the Creator.

I don't need to investigate the etymological background of a word, it is you who needs to investigate the theosophical and religious background of the practice of veneration, which you mistake for "worship" because you don't understand the difference between venerating an object, or person, or a Book, that assists you in understanding your relationship with and "worshipping" God.

the practice of Veneration

By the way, I am not Catholic. Does your church have a Cross above the altar? What purpose does it serve?

54 posted on 02/02/2015 11:42:00 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: maine-iac7
there aren’t ‘two’ shrouds - this one is purported to be the veil that is placed over the face before the shroud - it shouldn’t be called a shroud -

Not exactly Maine, this is Veronica's veil, the sweat cloth that non-Biblical tradition says a young woman wiped Jesus' face with as he carried His cross to Calvary, leaving his visage on the cloth in his sweat, tears, and blood.

55 posted on 02/02/2015 11:45:42 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users contnue...)
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To: Swordmaker

Thanks for coming to see this. It is startling not many people knew of this I was shocked when I first saw it. The first mention of this veil is from the 4th century Acts of Pilate. The jewish womans real name is Bernice but some also call her Seraphia. On the shroud of Turin the left cheek negative seems compressed leading many to think its fractured as also appears on this new discovery. people go wat to hard on the broken bones prophecy as it really only applied to the breaking of legs not tortured abuse and beatings


56 posted on 02/03/2015 6:26:47 AM PST by purcre (second shroud discovered vatican veronica veil)
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To: JudyinCanada

Hi Judy this is a hanky cloth the photographer I think called it a shroud because of the similar characteristics to the Shroud of Turin a hidden positive image


57 posted on 02/03/2015 6:26:47 AM PST by purcre (second shroud discovered vatican veronica veil)
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To: Bigg Red

Bernice was the womans name who wiped his face, the story first appears in Acts of Pilate 4th century it was thought to be a legend


58 posted on 02/03/2015 6:26:47 AM PST by purcre (second shroud discovered vatican veronica veil)
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To: virgil

According to his website hes a Shroud researcher and processed this veil in 2011


59 posted on 02/03/2015 6:26:47 AM PST by purcre (second shroud discovered vatican veronica veil)
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To: MuttTheHoople

The prophecy referred to broken leg bones, nails went through his bones hands feet, he was delivered resurrected to glory with a new body


60 posted on 02/03/2015 6:26:47 AM PST by purcre (second shroud discovered vatican veronica veil)
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