America’s Children: The Trials of Growing Up in a Police State

The Blaze ^ | Dec. 4, 2014 | John Whitehead - The Rutherford Institute

[Rabin]

Cleveland killer officer shot to death 12-year-old Tamir Rice, who was playing on a playground with a toy gun, no charges filed. Thirteen-year-old Andy Lopez Cruz was shot 7 times in 10 seconds by a California killer deputy early on a clear afternoon, he grand jury refused the case and the DA exonerated. Christopher Roupe, 17, was shot and killed after opening the door to a killer officer, mis-identified a remote control in Roupe’s hand' shot him in the chest with his Glock, at three ft. it exploded both the child's lungs.

[stockpirate]

“marxist”

no fascist

[DariusBane]

I conceal carry. I would never roll up on an incident the way the cop did. It was way to aggressive. No opportunity to sort out what was going on.

[Talisker]

Did the officers observe the boy on the approach? Yes.

Oh really? Is that what police training consists of - "when faced with a possible gunman, drive directly towards him and observe him on approach. Drive to within a couple of feet and shoot him, because hey, you've got a possible gunman a couple of feet away from you, so now you're in danger." What a crock!

This didn’t merely happen in a second or two. He faced the officer with what looked like a weapon. Who is really to blame?

The officers drove right up to him, and so made him face them with whatever it was that was in his hand. It was a toy. But the officers, having put themselves into potentially lethal danger by approaching so closely with no cover, decided to shoot him because they felt threatened by the proximity they alone created, over the supsicion they alone had, which was wrong.

[eyeamok]

Good, then arrest them for Murder and let a Jury decide, just like for EVERYBODY ELSE.

see http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html

[Eagles6]

In my state you have the right to use deadly force if you have a reasonable fear of death or GBI to yourself or another even if mistaken. You do not have to let the other guy shoot first or try to stab you or swing at you with a bat nor should you.

[DoughtyOne]

I'm not trashing the cops. I'm trashing the son of a b!tch that killed a twelve year old boy with a toy pistol.

You know, I'm not sure where some folks get the idea, but just because someone chose a law enforcement career, it doesn't mean they must surrender their life.  If someone no matter what age points a lethal weapon at you, you are not required to have them fill out a questionaire before opening fire.  There had been a report of a person with a weapon at the playground.  The officers showed up to contront the person carrying what looked like a gun.  That person pulled it out and pointed at the police.  The officers are not required by any stretch of the imagination to allow the person with what looks like a gun, to pump one round into their head.  They are not a son of a bitch, because they acted in self-defense.

Besides, this trigger happy officer has troubled history. We need officers and the majority of cops are good decent people with families just like you or I.

I will never require an officer to "take one" simply because he chose to be a police officer.  I wouldn't ask you to do that.  I wouldn't ask anyone to do that.  I would urge you to take action to end the potental lethal force that could be used against you.

With that, folks that come out and defend poor behavior from officers no matter the circumstances are just plain misguided.

It is not misguided to recognize something that constitutes potential lethal force, and neutralize it.  Are you telling me you think it would be wise to have a toy gun in your belt, and pull it on police officers?  I know you don't, so what we are talking about here is the age of the perp.  Is a bullet from this kids gun less lethal than if you held the weapon?

News Flash! There really are rogue cops walking the streets. There really are crooked cops on the take among the good officers. Hey, don't believe it...research Houston police department.

I do not have inside information regarding this.  I do think there are rogue officers.  I do think there are crookd cops.  I don't know about the Houston force.  I do know that this kid made a massive mistake pulling a toy gun out of his belt in this day and age of gangs and such.  Bring evidence of a rogue or crooked cop to me and I'll probably side with you.  I don't see this as that.  It's unfortunate the kid did this, but he did.

If you defend all cops no matter what, then the bad apples will never be culled.

I do not see this as an instance of defending an officer not matter what they did.  It is evidence of a kid acting in a poorly thought out way, not realizing what a threat he looked like to the officers that arrived on scene.  This was a kid that was acting rogue, not the officers.  He presented a threat and they neutralized it.

Am I happy the kid is dead.  No.  It's tragic that he didn't realize how this would look to officers arriving on scene.

[Lurker]

”  Already you’re revealing you don’t quite grasp what “person with a gun” means”

It means just that. I carry a gun. Lots of people carry guns. That doesn’t mean they can roll up on me and open fire before I have a chance to comply.

[DoughtyOne]

Whether you are ten feet from the kid or twenty, when he presents what looks like a weapon, it’s past the point where explanations are going to be asked for.

If you don’t believe this, go out and try it this evening or tomorrow. Come back and explain to us how it worked out.

[Ouderkirk]

I don’t disagree with you. I am pointing out the “media buzz” about this and what the angle is.

I agree that in many cases there are overzzealous cops who are about themselves, and their leadership is about their own power.

Since the Supremes have said that the police do not have a duty to protect the citizens, they are now nothing more than agents of the state, not protectors of the citizenry.

[packrat35]

Yes but large numbers of freepers feel they HAVE to defend him cause he’s a cop.

[xrmusn]

On this subject on another thread I finished up with

Say the kid had a gun, pulled it, got nervous it goes off and hits or kills an innocent bystander...

The press would report it as

“3 Cops stand by as teen with gun shoots innocent bystander”

[DoughtyOne]

I’m not convinced pulling up exposing the officer on the right side of the car to the kid was a good maneuver.

That’s they way they did it. The kid did present what looked like a gun. They shot him.

I don’t see this as police misconduct.

Could they have done it better? Yes.

When they get a call about “a person with a gun” they are naturally anxious. They don’t know who or what this kid id up to.

I still don’t see this as an act of negligence.

For all I know this kid was described as being a block away. They approached in a hurry, and may have come upon him quicker than they expected. I don’t know all that.

Perhaps them coming on him quicker caused them to pull closer than they might have otherwise.

I don’t know what the traffic is like, if they had to avoid oncoming traffic. I don’t know if the street was narrow.

[packrat35]

Well I guess I am a little old fashioned in expecting the cops not to gun down children. I’m funny that way.

[LevinFan]

You keep pulling hypotheticals out to justify this. Anything can be justified with hypotheticals.

What if it is totally innocent? What if the person making the call is just an anti gun nut who blew up his story to get a quicker response?

What if cops actually analyzed what was going on, instead of rolling up ready to rock and roll, and determined that will be the outcome?

“Okay, then they should allow the suspect to fire off rounds in the direction of whatever is behind the officers, an appartment building, business, just whatever happens to be there right?”
Ya, because your precious cops are so concerned about what backstops their rounds. /sarcasm.

“Why? They wanted to take immediate action with that individual.”
That’s part of the problem. They want action. They got sold on Robocop movies and thought it would be an adventure. Then it is boring, so they make the adventure.

“Why should some family behind the officers have to lose one or more of their loved ones?.”
Why should we put up with cops constantly killing people who were not a danger? 1/4 of all shootings are of people not armed.

[packrat35]

The kid withdrew what looked like a gun from his pants and pointed it at the officers.

That statement is a flat out lie and not supported by the video.

[DoughtyOne]

Did the officers observe the boy on the approach? Yes.

Oh really? Is that what police training consists of - "when faced with a possible gunman, drive directly towards him and observe him on approach. Drive to within a couple of feet and shoot him, because hey, you've got a possible gunman a couple of feet away from you, so now you're in danger." What a crock!

Do you know where the boy was reported to be, how much further the officers may have thought they needed to go to approach him?  Do you know if they came upon him sooner than they expected?  Do you know how wide the street was?  Do you know if they had to avoid oncoming traffic?  There could easily be a number of contributing factors here.  Perhaps they didn't intend to come up on the kid that close either.

This didn’t merely happen in a second or two. He faced the officer with what looked like a weapon. Who is really to blame?

The officers drove right up to him, and so made him face them with whatever it was that was in his hand. It was a toy. But the officers, having put themselves into potentially lethal danger by approaching so closely with no cover, decided to shoot him because they felt threatened by the proximity they alone created, over the supsicion they alone had, which was wrong.

Once again, this arm-chair quarterbacking is not really productive.  There are some things that have a bearing on how they pulled up to the kid that we just don't know.  What I do know is that if there is a determination to be made, there is a group of people here who will always look for some way to cast the police in the worst light possible.

I'm not one of them.  I make no appologies for it.

[DoughtyOne]

In your day were kids running around with actual guns in their hands?

Today they are. The day when you and I could outside and play army or cops and robbers has passed.

We also can’t go to drive-ins and do a bunch of fun things we used to. Society has changed. It is not the police officers who caused that.

In the 1980s, I was walking my kids to school every day. I used to be able to walk by myself when I was a kid. It’s just the way the world is.

The kid appeared to have a gun. He pulled it out of his waist, and appeared ready to use it.

I would never have done that as a stupid kid. I don’t think you would have either.

[DariusBane]

I would have been shot dead as a kid by this cop.

Dead.

[DoughtyOne]

It is what I have understood to have happened from what I’ve seen here.

So your charge that I was ling is typical, since anyone who disagrees with you is judged in the worst lite possible, starting with the officers.

True to form at least...

[LevinFan]

I seriously doubt he actually pointed a gun at them. That picture was crap. It is FAR more likely they embellished the story after the fact to make the kill look better. Not the first time cops did that.

Recent story had cops clearly ‘cleaning’ the report in a friendly fire incident of another cop.

You trust cops all you want. One day you’re going to learn the hard way that your heroes are not as pure and wise as you think they are.