Posted on 12/07/2014 7:25:21 AM PST by gorush
...And it was a headlock, not a chokehold. To be a chokehold, there must be constant pressure on the person’s neck, compressing his windpipe or cutting off the flow of blood to the carotid artery, rendering him unconscious.
Watch the video: It’s obvious that the arresting officer put his arm around Garner’s neck to bring him to the ground — but once Garner was on the ground, he was still conscious and able to say he couldn’t breathe.
That’s when the officers called for medical back-up. Tragically, the EMS personnel failed to administer oxygen or to ascertain that Garner was asthmatic and use an inhaler to assist with his breathing.
A top medical examiner (who can’t publicly fault the city ME) tells me it was very irresponsible for the Medical Examiner’s Office to issue the press release stating that Garner’s death was caused by a chokehold (with asthma, heart disease and obesity as contributing factors) and ruling his death a homicide.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
What matters is this man is DEAD after being "processed" by the police.
They could have written him another ticket, as he had committed the horrid crime of selling loose cigarettes 30x before, or turned the water hose on him to send him home for dry clothes.
But NO! They have to Subdue Impose Dominate!!! And now a man is dead, and he's the only one that didn't play the knockout game!
He was ‘alive’ before the police grabbed him; he was ‘dead’ afterwards. How hard is this to understand?
“Yet Garner died. Something is wrong here. The police need to re-examine their procedure on how to take down and control a large uncooperative suspect. In particular, they need to look at how a knee is applied to the back of a person who’s on his stomach.”
Stuff happens. It is an imperfect world. A major part of our problems in the United States is that it is compared to a fantasy of perfection, not other countries.
This case is an example of that. Because of a multiplicity of problems, which can be blamed on big government, police procedure, illegal merchandising, resisting arrest, and, perhaps most importantly, pre-existing serious medical problems, this man died.
I do not see any bureaucratic fix for the police. Possibly for the EMTs, but they have a difficult job to do as well.
If we fixate on perfection, the system gets so bound up in rules and liability, that people do nothing in order to protect themselves.
It’s hard, I don’t understand it.
Please be more specific.
What specific police action killed him?
Please provide a specific answer and proof beyond a reasonable doubt or even proof beyond a preponderance of the evidence to such.
You understood exactly. I’m not going to play your games. I told you what I’d do on a civil suit jury. Deal with it.
This is a just guess on my part (nothing new there, I've been proudly speculating on FR since 2009).
My guess is that when Garner went down, someone put a knee to either his back (if Garner was on his stomach) or to his chest (if Garner was on his back). That is a very common police technique to control a person on the ground. And if I'm right, that's what killed Garner.
I'm making that guess because about eight years ago cops in my area killed a man in that exact same way. The technique itself is flawed.
Are you stupid? Did I censor that poster? I asked.
What I understand is that you cannot prove your assertion.
I’m not playing games, I’m as serious as a heart attack.
Tell me how the police killed him, if you can’t, then I am going to continue to believe that he was not killed by police as the grand jury also believed.
You're telling me I cannot PROVE he was alive before being arrested and dead afterwards? Laughable.
I'm not fond of jury nullification of law and order as a rule (OJ's case is one instance I feel was misapplied). However, in this case, for THIS particular initial offense, I can certainly agree with it in a venue where the standards and proof are much less than criminal ones. He was alive, he was 'arrested' he got dead. To me, that city should pay - dearly.
Yup. The real villain here is the city tax avarice.
You make many good points in your post. The more bureaucratic rules there are, the less gets done. And soon people are afraid to do anything.
But I think there is a fix in this particular case. As I mentioned in my post #26, I'm guessing that the knee-to-the-back technique is what killed Garner by restricting his breathing. That technique needs to be reexamined.
Thank you! Finally another conservative voice who gets it.This situation has nothing to do with the race of the people involved. It’s all about tax enforcement and state power over private enterprise.
He has the right to talk about whatever he wants.
The nature of his question doesn’t make me nervous, I am not concerned with how lunatics perceive conservatives.
I am concerned with truth and fact.
The police action caused a heart attack which in turn caused his death.
But it’s for the greater good. Can’t have people selling those untaxed smoke sticks ya know.
The guy had all kinds of phtsical problems and had a heart attack....He pumped himself off resisting arrest....surprised he got took down....and wham...he missed a beat....
That’s an interesting theory, but there is no proof of that.
Furthermore, that isn’t lethal force.
ALso, I would like to point out that Garner is the person who created the circumstances in which he died.
So he was killed by the specific police action of”arrest”.
That’s an interesting assertion.
If anything, I would say that he was killed as a result of his specific action of “resisting arrest”.
I am aware that he died as a result of what he inititaited that day, but there is no proof at all of what killed him specifically, and there is no proof that anyone intended to kill him.
And there is no proof that anyone was responsible for what happened other than himself, because he was clearly responsible for what happened to him that day in more ways than one.
Okay. I am concerned about how those comments can reflect on this community and conservatives in general. That’s why I said “please”. Your lack of concern for these things doesn’t really explain your issues with my previous posts. I believe these comments can and will be used to smear FR and those who post here. We can all agree on the relevance of truth.
Right you are. But I think that there is enough there to warrant a trial in open court. And then if the evidence is not overwhelming, the cop should be found innocent.
As a side note, I'm not too impressed by the grand jury findings. The grand jury is controlled by the DA, who must work with cops to get convictions. So I doubt if the DA would be very aggressive in this case. Of course, once the grand jury records are released, I could be proven wrong/
Yeah just ignore that me report.
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