Posted on 10/13/2014 10:54:05 AM PDT by SkyPilot
In a dramatic shift in tone, a Vatican document said on Monday that homosexuals had "gifts and qualities to offer" and asked if Catholicism could accept gays and recognize positive aspects of same-sex couples.
Roman Catholic gay rights groups around the world hailed the paper as a breakthrough, but Church conservatives called it a betrayal of traditional family values.
The document, prepared after a week of discussions at an assembly of 200 bishops on the family, said the Church should challenge itself to find "a fraternal space" for homosexuals without compromising Catholic doctrine on family and matrimony.
While the text did not signal any change in the Church's condemnation of homosexual acts or gay marriage, it used less judgmental and more compassionate language than that seen in Vatican statements prior to the 2013 election of Pope Francis.
"Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a further space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home," said the document, known by its Latin name "relatio".
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
The ban was in place for centuries, written or not. The free love 60s and 70s opened the seminaries to active homosexuality, and homosexuals in positions of power excluded potential seminarians who had traditional values.
We are in general agreement, and I appreciate your point about the witness of those in the hierarchy.
The press has been quick to characterize this as “a Vatican document,” or change in doctrine. It is neither.
Rather, it is a discussion. A discussion of how to evangelize to people as we find them. How to successfully convert sinners, and help them on their way to Heaven.
Christ accepts us as sinners, though he doesn’t accept the sin. He is forgiving of the sin, and encouraging us to try again in contrition and humility.
The Church is called to go after the lost sheep. They are the ones who need as much help as they can get. Should they cast out and left to fend for themselves? Or should they be approached with love, as Christ loves, and be taught with patience and humility?
I think there is a challenge in all of this to not be the son who stayed at home in the parable of the prodigal son. Are we gladly sitting in our pews, saying amen, and doing a little volunteer work, but treating other sinners like dirt?
Are we the imperfect sitting in judgement of the other imperfects? Are we placing ourselves above others?
A few days ago, I read some Bible verses on backsliding (i.e. keep on sinning even though you have been given knowledge of the Saving power of Jesus Christ).
It was sobering, and a bit frightening.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/backsliders
These two especially got to me:
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?" Hebrews 10: 26-29
"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first." 2 Peter 2: 20
This no such thing as a "Homosexual Christian" or "Homosexual Catholic" - - any more than there is a thing such as a "Homosexual Idolater." I know why certain sin groups like homosexuals want "acceptance" by the Catholic church, or from Rabbis, or from Protestant groups like Presbyterian USA.
So they can go on sinning and feel good about.
Read those versus on backsliding from the link I sent. I came away from them feeling the awesome power of fearing the Lord.
Yes, Christ save. He forgives. Thanks be to Him! But, He demands repentance.
Believe me, I am sinner too. Without Him, I would feel absolutely doomed.
As one can see, it is somewhat different than the impression given by the secular press.
...yes it is...but the troubling clause in the passage relates to ‘accepting and valuing their sexual orientation’, which is obviously a loaded phrase...what is your interpretation of what that means, relative to its compromising Catholic doctrine...?
From the FULL REPORT (just below the article) at:
Read it and weep:
“Welcoming homosexual persons
Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a fraternal space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home. Are our communities capable of providing that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?
The question of homosexuality leads to a serious reflection on how to elaborate realistic paths of affective growth and human and evangelical maturity integrating the sexual dimension: it appears therefore as an important educative challenge. The Church furthermore affirms that unions between people of the same sex cannot be considered on the same footing as matrimony between man and woman. Nor is it acceptable that pressure be brought to bear on pastors or that international bodies make financial aid dependent on the introduction of regulations inspired by gender ideology.
Without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unions it has to be noted that there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of the partners. Furthermore, the Church pays special attention to the children who live with couples of the same sex, emphasizing that the needs and rights of the little ones must always be given priority.”
unions between people of the same sex cannot be considered on the same footing as matrimony between man and woman.
moral problems connected to homosexual unions
“Such a document”? We don’t even know what it says— only a small quote of which it is impossible to view the context
...you’re engaging in semantics, and evading the point...such a discussion, regardless of the ‘document’ which is or is not produced, would have been unimaginable prior to the liberalization of the Church arising from the needless Second Vatican Council, and its damaging legacy...
"A shift in tone." They've always been considered children of God, like the rest of us sinners. And homosexual acts have always been, and continue to be, considered "disordered."
RE: Vatican document challenges Church to change attitude to gays
Love the sinner, hate the sin. What has really changed?
It’s always been like that.
isn’t it great that sinners have such power within the Church. They don’t have to change thru Christ’s salvation, they can do what they want and be pandered to in the church!!//s
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
This has been the teaching of the Church, as instituted by Christ himself. No amount of Latin, or any other trapping will change that.
...I hardly think any traditional Catholic goes about thinking that the quality of Church dogma hinges upon the amount of Latin and the sweetness of the incense...are you suggesting otherwise...
RE: You do know that is not in the Bible and is a quote from Mahatma Ghandi?
Yes, but what’s un-biblical about the principle?
If the church turns away sinners, where you all going to go? The church will be empty.
A single woman I know says she is bisexual. She is a virgin and has no kind of sex with anyone, but feels attracted to women sometimes. She loves Jesus as much as anyone I have ever met. Should she be told she is not welcome in church, whether Catholic, Baptist, non-denominational, whatever?
How is that even possible, seeing that homosexuality is a completely subjective, self-declarative quality, unlike race?
They just say no, they're "straight."
A: The same thing they always do - accept their church tradition over God's Word.
And the blissful sheep will follow them right over the cliff. After all, this the Churched Piper.
Why even say that? It is an opening to affirming sin - that is a dangerous door to open, and one that God forbids. The Bible already tells us that He does not want anyone to perish. The Bible already tells us that He created us. The Bible already tells us He loves the world.
That "statement" is nothing but double talk designed to affirm homosexuality.
Also, many old-school Pentecostal branches retain holiness as their goal. I’m not referring to the exhibitionist sects, like the Benny Hinns or the Joyce Meyer heretics. There are a few groups who don’t flaunt the “gift of tongues,” or even require it, as evidence of the Baptism. These are, understandably, hard to find.
Is this the “man of peace”?
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