Posted on 10/13/2014 10:54:05 AM PDT by SkyPilot
In a dramatic shift in tone, a Vatican document said on Monday that homosexuals had "gifts and qualities to offer" and asked if Catholicism could accept gays and recognize positive aspects of same-sex couples.
Roman Catholic gay rights groups around the world hailed the paper as a breakthrough, but Church conservatives called it a betrayal of traditional family values.
The document, prepared after a week of discussions at an assembly of 200 bishops on the family, said the Church should challenge itself to find "a fraternal space" for homosexuals without compromising Catholic doctrine on family and matrimony.
While the text did not signal any change in the Church's condemnation of homosexual acts or gay marriage, it used less judgmental and more compassionate language than that seen in Vatican statements prior to the 2013 election of Pope Francis.
"Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a further space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home," said the document, known by its Latin name "relatio".
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Christ absolutely requires repentance! That’s why he told the woman caught in adultery to “Go, and sin no more.”
Not only are we called to repentance, but also conversion. If a person who has trouble stealing is truly seeking God, and wishes to conform his life to the Gospel, God will provide the grace he needs to stop stealing. It may be gradual, but God works on his own schedule.
The same is true with homosexuals. I think we are not recognizing the difficulty they face daily, knowing that their attraction to the same sex is not natural. Studies show homosexuals encounter significant amounts of shame and depression, at much higher levels than heterosexuals.
How do we show them the face of Christ, encourage them to conform their lives, and share the truth of Gospel, in a way that is productive and effective?
I think that is one of the questions of the Synod.
The fact that they have even discussed these things should be extremely disturbing to those of true faith and a sign to them that there is something very wrong.
Vatican already allows faggots to be cardinals, bishops, priests, they don’t care. It’s sickening.
It is disturbing and I have to ask God where are the people who are destined for the priesthood?
How do they know that someone's a practicing homosexual?
God is always the state’s number one competition. Drive him out and the state pours in. It’s unbelievable that parents have allowed this to happen in exchange for an expensive and deleterious second-rate “free” education.
What should we expect government schools to teach? Godliness?
I wonder if Jesus included those who suffer from same-sex attraction when He spoke of eunuchs in Matthew 19:12?
http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-12.htm
If so, then their differing sexual desires *can* be used for God’s glory, through the practice of celibacy. I know many with SSA who honor God in their celibacy.
Yes, the Pharisees told Jesus that He shouldn’t “hang around with sinners.”
Jesus condemned them for this.
That’s because he was Jesus Christ the Messiah. However for us it is also stated in 2 Corinthians 6:14-17:
“Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”
“God declared here in His Word that we are not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. We are not to be partakers of the same ways and deeds as sinners are. If you are a child of God, bought by the blood of Jesus and been born again, your life has changed because of Jesus. Therefore you should not have “fellowship” with sinners and unbelievers.”
RE: Bible also says in there to not hang around with sinners. To not be a part of the world. Be in it but not part of it.
Bible also tells us that Our Lord made friends with sinners — Publicans, tax collectors, prostitutes, etc. Yet, without sin.
I can be a friend to a gay person, yet NOT APPROVE of his lifestyle. Of course, we have to be careful NOT to be influenced by them, but to influence them instead.
Here is the distinction, Theo. Jesus befriended sinners in His everyday life, ministering to them, drawing them toward God and urging them to sin no more.
What Paul was talking about was having habitual/lifestyle sinners in good standing as regular members of the congregation. The example was a man living in sexual sin with his mother. Paul said this type of immorality cannot be tolerated by members of the body of Christ, *as* the body of Christ.
Iow, when you have a member of the congregation living in everyday, ongoing sin, you cannot simply tolerate and, by extension, condone the sin. You must confront the person in love in the Biblically prescribed manner, and if they repent & renounce their sin, great. If not, they must be separated from the assembly both for their own good and for the good of the congregation.
By that token the church can welcome celibate homosexuals into fellowship. It cannot—or at least should not—allow practicing homosexuals as members in good standing, any more than it can/should allow men & women living in sexual relationships sans the sacrament of marriage to be members in good standing.
Do you see the distinction?
They don’t. It’s a symptom of “tolerance” if the punishment was high for being caught, homos wouldn’t flock to the priesthood. The punishment should be death. Problem solved.
I know but He is the Lord and cannot be tempted. When people say “well Jesus did it” to me that doesn’t mean that we can, and get away with it unscathed. Now, I know we can be friends with someone who’s gay, as long as we know we aren’t weak to that particular situation, but I think we also have the obligation, as it were, to spread the gospel to them. And we all know, we won’t have them for a friend very long after that...
Wow. What a perversion of Scripture, Kelly4c.
Are you really equating “unequally yoked” with “hanging around with sinners”? Jesus hung around with sinners; was he *also* unequally yoked with them? No. Because they’re not the same thing.
It looks like you copy-pasted your comment from a sermon from Pastor Kevin Badgley. Is he your pastor? I notice from their website that they are a KJV-only church ( http://www.livinghopefellowshipchurch.org/aboutus.html ). The church seems to do a lot of good works, but their promotion of the KJV over other translations gives a hint about a heart of legalism. Maybe you’ve come to develop a legalistic heart as well, and are either promoting the church’s legalism, or are misinterpreting Pastor Badgley’s sermon in a legalistic way ...
There are a lot of “sinners” here on FR, kelly4c. Maybe you shouldn’t be hanging around us.
Ah, the man whose words you copy-pasted in this comment also wrote:
“If you smoke, you are ungodly, because God doesn’t do that. I believe that if you make your living selling or growing tobacco, you are a sinner, and you will go to hell for that.”
Again, this pastor’s church seems to be doing plenty of very good things. But his words are poison.
Of course.
You wrote: “By that token the church can welcome celibate homosexuals into fellowship. It cannot—or at least should not—allow practicing homosexuals as members in good standing, any more than it can/should allow men & women living in sexual relationships sans the sacrament of marriage to be members in good standing.”
That is precisely my position. There is a dramatic difference between same-sex attraction and homosexual behavior.
I’ve spent a bit more time looking into what this pastor has said. This is the concluding prayer following a sermon on the King James Version of the Bible:
“Father, I ask you to let people know by your Spirit that what they are reading, if it’s not the King James Version Bible, is a perversion of the truth.” ( http://www.livinghopefellowshipchurch.org/teaching%20met/god’s%20only%20word.html )
Wow.
If this man considers old things better than newer things, then he should probably take a look at the Geneva Bible, the Bible used by the Puritans and Reformers, the Bible brought over on the Mayflower. It was written years before the KJV ...
I don’t know who the man is, it highlighted and pasted more than what I wanted. “New” refurbished laptop that has issues and tired of trying to get the cursor to respond where I need it.... My point was to easily find and copy the BIBLE verses that I was looking for. I don’t care what a “pastor” has to say.
I DON’T HAVE A “PASTOR” i DON’T KNOW WHO RUNS THAT WEBSITE. I SIMPLY GOOGLED THE BIBLE VERSES THAT SHOW WHAT I WANTED TO SAY AND CLICKED ON ONE OF THE FIRST LINKS SO THAT I COULD PASTE THE ACTUAL BIBLE VERSES THAT PERTAIN TO THE SUBJECT.
I don’t know who the man is, it highlighted and pasted more than what I wanted. “New” refurbished laptop that has issues and tired of trying to get the cursor to respond where I need it.... My point was to easily find and copy the BIBLE verses that I was looking for. I don’t care what a “pastor” has to say. I don’t know what the website is. I have computer problems that my husband has had no time to fix. SORRY!!!
BOY PEOPLE ARE QUICK TO JUMP ON EACH OTHER SOMETIMES.
Yes, you certainly were quick to jump on me with your misinterpretation of Scripture.
I feel pretty strongly about this, which is why I’ve made a big deal of it. “Hanging out with sinners” is not the same as being “unequally yoked.” You were wrong in your having said so.
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