Posted on 08/20/2014 1:15:30 PM PDT by wagglebee
In a bizarre rant on Twitter earlier today, atheist Richard Dawkins wrote that choosing not to abort a child with Down Syndrome would be "immoral."
The conversation started when Dawkins tweeted that "Ireland is a civilised country except in this 1 area." The area was abortion, which until last year was illegal in all cases.
A Twitter user then asked Dawkins if "994 human beings with Down's Syndrome [having been] deliberately killed before birth in England and Wales in 2012" was "civilised."
Dawkins replied "yes, it is very civilised. These are fetuses, diagnosed before they have human feelings."
Apparently I'm a horrid monster for recommending WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS to the great majority of Down Syndrome fetuses. They are aborted. — Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) August 20, 2014
.@AidanMcCourt Yes, it is very civilised. These are fetuses, diagnosed before they have human feelings. — Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) August 20, 2014
Later, Dawkins said that "the question is not ‘is it 'human'?’ but ‘can it SUFFER?’"
In perhaps the most shocking moment, one Twitter user wrote that he or she "honestly [doesn't] know what I would do if I were pregnant with a kid with Down Syndrome. Real ethical dilemma."
Dawkins advised the writer to "abort it and try again. It would be immoral to bring it into the world if you have the choice."
According to Dawkins, the issue of who should be born comes down to a calculation based upon possible suffering. "Yes. Suffering should be avoided. [The abortion] cause[s] no suffering. Reduce suffering wherever you can."
Later, however, he said that people on the autism spectrum "have a great deal to contribute, Maybe even an enhanced ability in some respects. [Down Syndrome] not enhanced."
When Dawkins received some blowback from Twitter followers, he replied: "Apparently I'm a horrid monster for recommending WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS to the great majority of Down Syndrome fetuses. They are aborted."
It is estimated that in many Western countries the abortion rate of children diagnosed in utero with Down syndrome is 90%, or even higher. The development of new and more accurate tests for the condition has raised concerns among Down syndrome advocates that that number could rise even higher.
Although it is widely believed that people with Down syndrome are doomed to a life of suffering, in one large survey 99% of respondents with Down syndrome said they were "happy." At the same time, 99% percent of parents said they loved their child with Down syndrome, and 97 percent said they were proud of them.
Only 4 percent of parents who responded said they regretted having their child.
A number of Dawkins' statements in the Twitter thread about fetal development are at odds with scientific realities. For example, it is well-established that 20 weeks into a pregnancy, unborn children can feel pain. Likewise, unborn children have emotional reactions to external stimuli -- such as a mother's stress levels -- months before being born.
Wait, doesn’t this mean he is against evolution?
Fine. Next time you get a cold, we'll put you out of your misery, Dawkins....
I have lived in the same suburb of Seattle for 33 years. In our neighborhood there lives a DS man with his elderly mother. I have no idea how old he is; although, I think I heard someone say he was in his mid or late 40's. He has worked at the grocery store that I shop at for many, many years. I see him out in the yard with his mother helping her do gardening. He reads the newspaper, loves sports, is always at his job and has been doing these things for years. He has a life, just like the rest of us.
Just because he has Downs Syndrome, what makes him less human than the non-DS people employed by this grocery store?
Shameful. His mind is more twisted than his body.
It was one of the primary purposes for the founding of Planned Parenthood.
"Birth control itself, often denounced as a violation of natural law, is nothing more or less than the facilitation of the process of weeding out the unfit, of preventing the birth of defectives or of those who will become defective." – Margaret Sanger
Two words...Josef Mengele.
Better than that, an atheist cannot say what is good and evil, right and wrong, moral and immoral. They have no standard by which to judge others. For Dawkins to lecture people about what is moral or immoral simply means that he is the sole judge. To another atheist they might have a different set of rules. So Dawkins’ job is to convince people and get everyone to agree that this action is “immoral” simply because everyone agrees. Trouble is, it means nothing for it’s not based on anything. You could have everyone agreeing that the world is flat but that doesn’t mean they’re right.
The problem with the atheist viewpoint is that there is a code of conduct written on the heart. People know that it’s wrong to murder, steal, lie, etc. These aren’t things that people agreed as being wrong; they are things that people know intuitively.
And Dawkins knows this as well. He just doesn’t want to admit it. And, you’re right; he sees us as pieces of meat. But in due time...
What do you know, another scumbag born in Kenya
The good reason to diagnose Down Syndrome in the womb is that babies with DS often have physical impairments that require immediate care. Heart defects are not uncommon. If the medical staff is prepared, things can go much better.
It can also be helpful for the parents to be prepared for a special-needs child, rather than surprised at the delivery.
In Dawkins perfect world, he would have been “Released to Elsewhere” decades ago.
The list of conditions they can diagnose before birth is growing, approaching a thousand from a single amniocentisis, and they can diagnose some conditions now through blood tests of the mother by identifying the fetus’ DNA floating in her blood. The idea is that if she can be diagnosed at 3 months along instead of five or six, it is easier to terminate if something is wrong.
There are genetic correlations to personality traits. We could easily see tests in 10-20 years that show a strong likelihood to one political affiliation or personality types (those with addiction to adrenaline tend to be risk takers, Democrats/liberals are very difficult to offend, conservatives are security oriented compared to liberals).
Imagine genetic tests for personality traits and screening out everything from introverts to conservatives to the guy most likely to be the next astronaut on Mars because he is too likely to break bones doing stunts at the indoor trampoline place.
Personally I am right I want see Trig Palin grow up been smart*** Alaskan dude that I think he is
Probably go whatever dude on Richard Darwkin
we could reduce a great deal of suffering getting rid of every damn atheist like dawkins.
Immoral based on what? Dawkins is an atheist. There is no morality or immorality within atheism.
My youngest child (almost 3 years old) has DS and he’s an amazing joy to our family.
We never even considered abortion under any circumstances.
This ass clown’s comments are so offensive and ignorant that he should forever not be taken seriously in any capacity.
Saint Margret to the liberals, she was a demonic twisted monster, this world still awards her high praise,
“And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Moloch” Leviticus 18:21
“It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.” Luke 17:2
Jesus himself tells us that children have Guardian Angels:
“Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven” Matthew 18:10
“And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.” Revelation 18:21
God creates all children. Down babies are beautiful and fun-loving. They add much happiness to a family.
Mr. Dawkins, killing is NOT the answer.
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