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Falling Stars, Damnable Heresy, and the Spirit of Evolution
Renew America ^ | Sept. 19, 2013 | Linda Kimball

Posted on 09/20/2013 4:29:03 AM PDT by spirited irish

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son” (1 John 2:22).

“And the fifth angel sounded the trumpet, and I saw a star fall from heaven upon the earth, and there was given to him the key of the bottomless pit." (Rev. 9:1)

In his Concise Commentary Matthew Henry identifies falling stars as tepid, indecisive, weak or apostate clergy who,

"Having ceased to be a minister of Christ, he who is represented by this star becomes the minister of the devil; and lets loose the powers of hell against the churches of Christ."

John identifies antichrists, in this case clergy who serve the devil rather than Christ, sequentially. First, like Bultmann, Teilhard de Chardin, Robert Funk, Paul Tillich, and John Shelby Spong, they specifically deny the living, personal Holy Trinity in favor of Gnostic pagan, immanent or Eastern pantheist conceptions. Though God the Father Almighty in three Persons upholds the souls of men and maintains life and creation, His substance is not within nature (space-time dimension) as pantheism maintains, but outside of it. Sinful men live within nature and are burdened by time and mortality; God is not.

Second, the specific denial of the Father logically negates Jesus the Christ, the Word who was in the beginning (John 1), was with God, and is God from the creation of all things (1 John 1). In a pre-incarnate theophany, Jesus is the Angel who spoke “mouth to mouth” to Moses (Num. 12:6-9; John 9:20) and at sundry times and in many ways “spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all…” (Hebrews 1:1) Jesus the Christ is the incarnate Son of God who is the life and light of men, who by His shed blood on the Cross died for the remission of all sins and bestowed the privilege of adoption on all who put their faith in Him.

Therefore, to deny the Holy Father is to logically deny the deity of Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God, hence,

“…every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist . . . and even now already is it in the world” (1 John 4:3).

According to Peter (2 Peter 2:1), falling stars will work among the faithful, teaching damnable heresies that deny the Lord, cause the fall of men into unbelief, and bring destruction upon themselves:

“The natural parents of modern unbelief turn out to have been the guardians of belief.” Many thinking people came at last “to realize that it was religion, not science or social change that gave birth to unbelief. Having made God more and more like man---intellectually, morally, emotionally---the shapers of religion made it feasible to abandon God, to believe simply in man.” (James Turner of the University of Michigan in “American Babylon,” Richard John Neuhaus, p. 95)

Falling Stars and Damnable Heresy

Almost thirty years ago, two well-respected social science scholars, William Sims Bainbridge and Rodney Stark found themselves alarmed by what they saw as a rising tide of irrationalism, superstition and occultism---channeling cults, spirit familiars, necromancers, Wiccans, Satanists, Luciferians, goddess worshippers, 'gay' shamans, Hermetic magicians and other occult madness at every level of society, particularly within the most influential--- Hollywood, academia and the highest corridors of political power.

Like many scientists, they were equally concerned by Christian opposition to naturalistic evolution. As is common in the science community, they assumed the cause of these social pathologies was somehow due to fundamentalism, their term for authentic Christian theism as opposed to liberalized Christianity. Yet to their credit, the research they undertook to discover the cause was conducted both scientifically and with great integrity. What they found was so startling it caused them to re-evaluate their attitude toward authentic Christian theism. Their findings led them to say:

"It would be a mistake to conclude that fundamentalists oppose all science (when in reality they but oppose) a single theory (that) directly contradicts the bible. But it would be an equally great mistake to conclude that religious liberals and the irreligious possess superior minds of great rationality, to see them as modern personalities who have no need of the supernatural or any propensity to believe unscientific superstitions. On the contrary...they are much more likely to accept the new superstitions. It is the fundamentalists who appear most virtuous according to scientific standards when we examine the cults and pseudo-sciences proliferating in our society today." ("Superstitions, Old and New," The Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. IV, No. 4; summer, 1980)

In more detail they observed that authentic ‘born again’ Christians are far less likely to accept cults and pseudoscientific beliefs while the irreligious and liberalized Christians (i.e., progressive Catholics, Protestant emergent, NAR, word faith, prosperity gospel) are open to unscientific notions. In fact, these two groups are most disposed toward occultism.

As Bainbridge and Stark admitted, evolution directly contradicts the Bible, beginning with the Genesis account of creation ex nihilo. This means that evolution is the antithesis of the Genesis account. For this reason, discerning Christians refuse to submit to the evolutionary thinking that has swept Western and American society. Nor do they accept the evolutionary theism brought into the whole body of the Church by weak, tepid, indecisive, or apostate clergy.

Over eighty years ago, Rev. C. Leopold Clarke wrote that priests who embrace evolution (evolutionary theists) are apostates from the ‘Truth as it is in Jesus.’ (1 John2:2) Rev. Clarke, a lecturer at a London Bible college, discerned that evolution is the antithesis to the Revelation of God in the Deity of Jesus Christ, thus it is the greatest and most active agent of moral and spiritual disintegration:

“It is a battering-ram of unbelief---a sapping and mining operation that intends to blow Religion sky-high. The one thing which the human mind demands in its conception of God, is that, being Almighty, He works sovereignly and miraculously---and this is the thing with which Evolution dispenses….Already a tremendous effect, on a wide scale has been produced by the impact of this teaching---an effect which can only be likened to the…collapse of foundations…” (Evolution and the Break-Up of Christendom, Philip Bell, creation.com, Nov. 27, 2012)

The faith of the Christian Church and of the average Christian has had, and still has, its foundation as much in the literal and historic meaning of Genesis, the book of beginnings revealed ‘mouth to mouth’ by the Angel to Moses, as in that of the person and deity of Jesus Christ. But how horrible a travesty of the sacred office of the Christian Ministry to see church leaders more eager to be abreast of the times, than earnestly contending for the Faith once delivered unto the saints (Jude 1:3). It is high time, said Rev. Clarke, that the Church,

“…. separated herself from the humiliating entanglement attending her desire to be thought up to date…What, after all, have custodians of Divine Revelation to do making terms with speculative Biology, which has….no message of comfort or help to the soul?” (ibid)

The primary tactic employed by priests eager to accommodate themselves and the Church to modern science and evolutionary thinking is predictable. It is the argument that evolution is entirely compatible with the Bible when we see Genesis, especially the first three chapters, in a non-literal, non-historical context. This is the argument embraced and advanced by mega-church pastor Timothy J. Keller.

With a position paper Keller published with the theistic evolutionary organization Bio Logos he joined the ranks of falling stars (Catholic and Protestant priests) stretching back to the Renaissance. Their slippery-slide into apostasy began when they gave into the temptation to embrace a non-literal, non-historical view of Genesis. (A response to Timothy Keller’s ‘Creation, Evolution and Christian Laypeople,” Lita Cosner, Sept. 9, 2010, creation.com)

This is not a heresy unique to modern times. The early Church Fathers dealt with this damnable heresy as well, counting it among the heretical tendencies of the Origenists. Fourth-century Fathers such as John Chrysostom, Basil the Great and Ephraim the Syrian, all of whom wrote commentaries on Genesis, specifically warned against treating Genesis as an unhistorical myth or allegory. John Chrysostom strongly warned against paying heed to these heretics,

“…let us stop up our hearing against them, and let us believe the Divine Scripture, and following what is written in it, let us strive to preserve in our souls sound dogmas.” (Genesis, Creation, and Early Man, Fr. Seraphim Rose, p. 31)

As St. Cyril of Alexandria wrote, higher theological, spiritual meaning is founded upon humble, simple faith in the literal and historic meaning of Genesis and one cannot apprehend rightly the Scriptures without believing in the historical reality of the events and people they describe. (ibid, Seraphim Rose, p. 40)

In the integral worldview teachings of the Fathers, neither the literal nor historical meaning of the Revelations of the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Angel who spoke to Moses, can be regarded as expendable. There are at least four critically important reasons why. First, to reduce the Revelation of God to allegory and myth is to contradict and usurp the authority of God, ultimately deny the deity of Jesus Christ; twist, distort, add to and subtract from the entire Bible and finally, to imperil the salvation of believers.

Scenarios commonly proposed by modern Origenists posit a cleverly disguised pantheist/immanent nature deity subject to the space-time dimension and forces of evolution. But as noted previously, it is sinful man who carries the burden of time, not God. This is a crucial point, for when evolutionary theists add millions and billions of zeros (time) to God they have transferred their own limitations onto Him. They have ‘limited’ God and made Him over in their own image. This is not only idolatrous but satanic.

Additionally, evolution inverts creation. In place of God’s good creation from which men fell there is an evolutionary escalator starting at the bottom with matter, then progressing upward toward life, then up and through the life and death of millions of evolved creatures that preceded humans by millions of years until at long last an apish humanoid emerges into which a deity that is always in a state of becoming (evolving) places a soul.

Evolution amputates the entire historical precedent from the Gospel and makes Jesus Christ unnecessary as the atheist Frank Zindler enthusiastically points out:

“The most devastating thing that biology did to Christianity was the discovery of biological evolution. Now that we know that Adam and Eve never were real people the central myth of Christianity is destroyed. If there never was an Adam and Eve, there never was an original sin. If there never was an original sin there is no need of salvation. If there is no need of salvation there is no need of a saviour. And I submit that puts Jesus…into the ranks of the unemployed. I think evolution absolutely is the death knell of Christianity.” (“Atheism vs. Christianity,” 1996, Lita Cosner, creation.com, June 13, 2013)

None of this was lost on Darwin’s bulldog, Thomas Henry Huxley (1825-1985). Huxley was thoroughly familiar with the Bible, thus he understood that if Genesis is not the authoritative Word of God, is not historical and literal despite its’ symbolic and poetic elements, then the entirety of Scripture becomes a collection of fairytales resulting in tragic downward spiraling consequences as the Catholic Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation makes clear in part:

“By denying the historical truth of the first chapters of Genesis, theistic evolutionism has fostered a preoccupation with natural causes almost to the exclusion of supernatural ones. By denying the several supernatural creative acts of God in Genesis, and by downplaying the importance of the supernatural activity of Satan, theistic evolutionists slip into a naturalistic mentality which seeks to explain everything in terms of natural causes. Once this mentality takes hold, it is easy for men to regard the concept of spiritual warfare as a holdover from the days of primitive superstition. Diabolical activity is reduced to material or psychological causes. The devil and his demons come to be seen as irrelevant. Soon ‘hell’ joins the devil and his demons in the category of antiquated concepts. And the theistic evolutionist easily makes the fatal mistake of thinking that he has nothing more to fear from the devil and his angels. According to Fr. Gabriele Amorth, the chief exorcist of Rome, there is a tremendous increase in diabolical activity and influence in the formerly Christian world. And yet most of the bishops of Europe no longer believe in the existence of evil spirits….To the Fathers of the Church who believed in the truth of Genesis, this would be incredible. But in view of the almost universal acceptance of theistic evolution, it is hardly surprising.” (The Difference it makes: The Importance of the Traditional Doctrine of Creation, Hugh Owen, kolbecenter.org)

Huxley had ‘zero’ respect for modern Origenists and received enormous pleasure from heaping piles of hot coals and burning contempt upon them, thereby exposing their shallow-reasoning, hypocrisy, timidity, fear of non-acceptance, and unfaithfulness. With sarcasm dripping from his words he quipped,

“I am fairly at a loss to comprehend how any one, for a moment, can doubt that Christian theology must stand or fall with the historical trustworthiness of the Jewish Scriptures. The very conception of the Messiah, or Christ, is inextricably interwoven with Jewish history; the identification of Jesus of Nazareth with that Messiah rests upon the interpretation of passages of the Hebrew Scriptures which have no evidential value unless they possess the historical character assigned to them. If the covenant with Abraham was not made; if circumcision and sacrifices were not ordained by Jahveh; if the “ten words” were not written by God’s hand on the stone tables; if Abraham is more or less a mythical hero, such as Theseus; the story of the Deluge a fiction; that of the Fall a legend; and that of the creation the dream of a seer; if all these definite and detailed narratives of apparently real events have no more value as history than have the stories of the regal period of Rome—what is to be said about the Messianic doctrine, which is so much less clearly enunciated? And what about the authority of the writers of the books of the New Testament, who, on this theory, have not merely accepted flimsy fictions for solid truths, but have built the very foundations of Christian dogma upon legendary quicksands?” (Darwin’s Bulldog---Thomas Huxley, Russell Grigg, creation.com, Oct. 14, 2008)

Pouring more contempt on them he asked,

“When Jesus spoke, as of a matter of fact, that "the Flood came and destroyed them all," did he believe that the Deluge really took place, or not? It seems to me that, as the narrative mentions Noah’s wife, and his sons’ wives, there is good scriptural warranty for the statement that the antediluvians married and were given in marriage; and I should have thought that their eating and drinking might be assumed by the firmest believer in the literal truth of the story. Moreover, I venture to ask what sort of value, as an illustration of God’s methods of dealing with sin, has an account of an event that never happened? If no Flood swept the careless people away, how is the warning of more worth than the cry of “Wolf” when there is no wolf? If Jonah’s three days’ residence in the whale is not an “admitted reality,” how could it “warrant belief” in the “coming resurrection?” … Suppose that a Conservative orator warns his hearers to beware of great political and social changes, lest they end, as in France, in the domination of a Robespierre; what becomes, not only of his argument, but of his veracity, if he, personally, does not believe that Robespierre existed and did the deeds attributed to him?” (ibid)

Concerning Matthew 19:5:

“If divine authority is not here claimed for the twenty-fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis, what is the value of language? And again, I ask, if one may play fast and loose with the story of the Fall as a “type” or “allegory,” what becomes of the foundation of Pauline theology?” (ibid)

And concerning Cor. 15:21-22:

“If Adam may be held to be no more real a personage than Prometheus, and if the story of the Fall is merely an instructive “type,” comparable to the profound Promethean mythus, what value has Paul’s dialectic?” (ibid)

After much thought, C.S. Lewis concluded that evolution is the central, most radical lie at the center of a vast network of lies within which modern Westerners are entangled while Rev. Clarke identifies the central lie as the Gospel of another Spirit. The fiendish aim of this Spirit is to help men lose God, not find Him, and by contradicting the Divine Redeemer, compromising Priests are serving this Spirit and its’ diabolical purposes. To contradict the Divine Redeemer is the very essence of unfaithfulness, and that it should be done while reverence is professed,

“…. is an illustration of the intellectual and moral topsy-turvydom of Modernism…’He whom God hath sent speaketh the Words of God,’ claimed Christ of Himself (John 3:34), and no assumption of error can hold water in the face of that declaration, without blasphemy.” Evolutionary theists are serving the devil, therefore “no considerations of Christian charity, of tolerance, of policy, can exonerate Christian leaders or Churches who fail to condemn and to sever themselves from compromising, cowardly, shilly-shallying priests”---the falling stars who “challenge the Divine Authority of Jesus Christ.” (ibid)

The rebuttals, warnings and counsels of the Fathers against listening to Origenists (and their modern evolutionary counterparts) indicates that the spirit of antichrist operating through modern rationalistic criticism of the Revelation of God is not a heresy unique to our times but was inveighed against by early Church Fathers.

From the scholarly writings of the Eastern Orthodox priest, Fr. Seraphim Rose, to the incisive analysis, rebuttals and warnings of the Catholic Kolbe Center, creation.com, Creation Research Institute, Rev. Clarke, and many other stalwart defenders of the faith once delivered, all are a clear, compelling call to the whole body of the Church to hold fast to the traditional doctrine of creation as it was handed down from the Apostles, for as God spoke and Jesus is the Living Word incarnate, it is incumbent upon the faithful to submit their wills to the Divine Will and Authority of God rather than to the damnable heresy proffered by falling stars eager to embrace naturalistic science and the devil's antithesis--- evolution. But if it seem evil to you to serve the Lord,

“…you have your choice: choose this day that which pleases you, whom you would rather serve….but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: apologetics; be; crevo; evolution; forum; historicity; historicityofchrist; historicityofjesus; inman; magic; naturalism; pantheism; religion; scientism; should
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To: editor-surveyor
Could this raging misogynist be a disciple of Michael Rood? You don’t sound like one, but...

Ha ha! I knew you're a phony.

641 posted on 10/20/2013 8:17:33 PM PDT by R7 Rocket (The Cathedral is Sovereign, you're not. Unfortunately, the Cathedral is crazy.)
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To: R7 Rocket

You’re an airhead.


642 posted on 10/20/2013 8:24:13 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Face it, nothing you say about the Bible or family values has any credibility.


643 posted on 10/20/2013 8:30:06 PM PDT by R7 Rocket (The Cathedral is Sovereign, you're not. Unfortunately, the Cathedral is crazy.)
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To: R7 Rocket; editor-surveyor
Wow, you could get a PhD in Wrong Conclusions (if there were such a thing.)
644 posted on 10/20/2013 9:09:56 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Wow, you could get a PhD in Wrong Conclusions (if there were such a thing.)

Lo and behold! The Pastrix preaches her sermon.

645 posted on 10/20/2013 9:12:26 PM PDT by R7 Rocket (The Cathedral is Sovereign, you're not. Unfortunately, the Cathedral is crazy.)
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To: R7 Rocket

I was looking for your creds, couldn’t find anything but bowel gas. Could you show us where to find them?


646 posted on 10/21/2013 9:32:25 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Well spoken, Alamo-Girl. Tell 'em, Sister.
647 posted on 10/21/2013 11:42:39 AM PDT by YHAOS
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To: Alamo-Girl; R7 Rocket; editor-surveyor; spirited irish; hosepipe; TXnMA; marron; YHAOS
These modern day contracts that people call "marriage" are doomed from the get-go because God didn't do it. They are the result of self-will run awry meaning one or the other or both didn't take God seriously in the first place.... Concerning marriage per se, I observe that many of today's marriages are merely contracts and not Holy matrimony, despite the title of the person who conducted the marriage ceremony.

Oh so very true, dearest sister in Christ!

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear....

Thank you so very much for your spot-on observations!

648 posted on 10/21/2013 12:50:59 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: spirited irish; tacticalogic; Alamo-Girl; YHAOS; BroJoeK; hosepipe; marron; TXnMA; R7 Rocket; ...
Reductionism is the method of reducing the supernatural to the natural (biological), i.e., spirit (mind and its abilities) to firing of neurons and movement of chemicals. Thus it can be said that man has no soul/spirit because it cannot be weighed, measured, tested, touched, etc.

Indeed it not only can be said, but actually has been said that man has no soul/spirit because such entities have no physical realization — famously by Daniel Dennett. I gather his buddy Dawkins agrees. You'll recall that these two launched a transAtlantic "Brights vs. Dims" rhetorical campaign, the purpose of which was to put theists in the "Dims" category, whereupon they were set up as objects of scorn and derision.

Yet this allegation makes me think that the alleger has undergone some sort of strange self-lobotomy...which would be an exercise in self-reduction. (Indeed, I would argue, an exercise in self-mutilation.)

You, dear sister in Christ, consistently focus on the cosmic implications of the attempt to expunge the transcendent or spiritual aspects of Reality from the cosmic record, cosmic history.

I think we agree that Man cannot be the measure of such, such to say what is admissible and thus "good," and what is inadmissible and thus "trash." Only a self-lobotomized, narcissistic personality can believe he is the logos of Reality. Which, in essence, is what your typical gnostic thinker believes, when you boil it all down. Such a thinker ends up being a "god unto himself." The great Hegel — father of "dialectical science" — is a major case in point.

Which from a scientific standpoint, is really hilarious. Science ever tries to banish all "subjective elements" from its practice. (A thing increasingly difficult to do, post Einsteinian Relativity and Copenhagen School quantum mechanics, wherein the observer — a relentlessly subjective mind — is methodologically indispensable.)

At least since Schrödinger's landmark essay "What is Life?" (1944), there has been a growing awareness in physics that any "new physics" will depend on a greater understanding of biology. And increasingly it is recognized that biology is not a simple study of biological parts which can then be summed up as a complete description of the Whole of which they are parts.

Increasingly the realization is that what makes a biological organism per se alive is not the mere sum of its parts, but the organizational scheme by which the multifarious parts are coordinated into a single, persistent, living being over time. The organizational scheme is not a material or physical thing. But without it, there are no living beings.

Here's a little something on-point from Robert Rosen's Essays on Life Itself (2000):

...the destructive experiments [e.g., "fractionating wholes" to yield their "parts" for study, on the presupposition that if you know everything about the "parts," then just tot up all that knowledge, and you will "recover" your Whole with no loss of information] on which reductionisms depend are inherently irreversible, in any material sense, yet the effect of these presumed transformations is precisely to reverse them, to go backward from a big population of elementary units to a particular material system (e.g., an organism) of which they are an isomer.

Many years ago, I heard a routine of Woody Allen that bears on exactly this point. As he told it, he acquired a Rolls-Royce while in England and wanted to return with it to the States. On the other hand, he didn't want to pay the duty on it. So he hit on the idea of disassembling it, packing the parts into many suitcases, and describing them to the customs inspectors as modern sculpture, not dutiable as art. He was successful, got his many suitcases home, and proceeded to try to assemble his car. In his first attempt, the parts yielded 200 bicycles. On the second attempt, he got many lawn-mowers. And so it went; he never could retrieve the car.

Must leave it there for now. Thank you, dear sister in Christ, for your outstanding observations on our present questions!
649 posted on 10/21/2013 2:29:58 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop
Reductionism is the method of reducing the supernatural to the natural (biological), i.e., spirit (mind and its abilities) to firing of neurons and movement of chemicals. Thus it can be said that man has no soul/spirit because it cannot be weighed, measured, tested, touched, etc.

What do you call the counterpoint to reducionism that expands every question to a quagmire of metaphysical navel-gazing that produces answers that cannot be conveyed?

650 posted on 10/21/2013 2:41:26 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic; Alamo-Girl; BroJoeK; R7 Rocket; spirited irish; marron; YHAOS; hosepipe; TXnMA; ...
I don't understand what it is about that you object to.

What I object to is reductionism in principle. Logic can work in a "reduced" system. But to the extent the system is reduced, the applications of logic must be reduced to the size of that system. Logic all by itself will not propose questions outside its specifically directed application.

And system "sizes" are determined according to the way in which they are defined and modeled. If all your modeling is conducted on the presupposition that the only thing that ultimately exists, is "matter in its motions," then you necessarily have an extremely reduced model of the natural world. Logic can still work there; but it can never give you the "whole story."

Perhaps the most important part of the "whole story" that is edited out in this process is what Einstein called "'free creations of the human mind,' on which he believed science depends." [Rosen, ibid.]

Heck, on the widely-accepted materialist/mechanistic models, the human mind itself must be held suspect as something that really is a fiction (since we can't "observe" it). And yet science depends on it; for without mind, science cannot do its work.

Do you not see the inherent logical self-contradition at work here?

651 posted on 10/21/2013 2:55:14 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: tacticalogic
What do you call the counterpoint to reductionism that expands every question to a quagmire of metaphysical navel-gazing that produces answers that cannot be conveyed?

BAD SCIENCE.

652 posted on 10/21/2013 2:57:00 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: tacticalogic; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Whosoever

What do you call the counterpoint to reducionism that expands every question to a quagmire of metaphysical navel-gazing that produces answers that cannot be conveyed?


ans; BULL Sweating..


653 posted on 10/21/2013 3:06:49 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: betty boop
Do you not see the inherent logical self-contradition at work here?

Yes but I don't see any solution being offered. Reductionism eliminates information that cannot be conveyed. You protest that this is too limiting, but can't explain how to make it work without it.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have the physical limitations we do. But it is what it is, and our choices are to do it the best we can within the limitations we have to live and work with, or not do it at all.

I choose the former.

654 posted on 10/21/2013 3:27:56 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: betty boop; YHAOS; Alamo-Girl; BroJoeK; hosepipe

betty: Yet this allegation makes me think that the alleger has undergone some sort of strange self-lobotomy...which would be an exercise in self-reduction. (Indeed, I would argue, an exercise in self-mutilation.)

Spirited: Richard Weaver, author of “Ideas Have Consequences” describes the plight of self-lobotomized dialectical materialists and/or scientific naturalists:

“…the closer man stands to ruin, the duller grows his realization (for) the annihilation of spiritual being precedes the destruction of temple walls.” (The Conservative Intellectual Movement in America, George H. Nash, pp. 30-33)

What’s left after annihilation of spiritual being but a sophistical naturalist or blood and soil man. Though spiritually dead and his conscience dead to sin his intellect remains intact but is worthless for anything but pursuit of self-gratification at any cost and his will is a force of negation.


655 posted on 10/21/2013 3:54:15 PM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

yeah....


656 posted on 10/21/2013 3:59:20 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: tacticalogic; Alamo-Girl; spirited irish; BroJoeK; R7 Rocket; hosepipe; marron; YHAOS; MHGinTN; ...
Reductionism eliminates information that cannot be conveyed.

But without the reductionist censorship, the information could be conveyed.

Why on earth would you say that, "In a perfect world we wouldn't have the physical limitations we do?"

How do you define PERFECT? And did you forget that God created, not a "perfect world," but "only" a GOOD one?

Had He created a "perfect world," there would be no place, no role, for man — who, made in the Image of God, possesses reason and free will — that is, a mind capable of effecting action in the real world....

In a "perfect world," there would be nothing for Man to do. There would be no reason for a man to inquire into anything, let alone try to improve the methods and means of his divine stewardship of the natural world (Genesis 2: 8 ff). The existence of Man would be entirely pointless, gratuitous, under such conditions.

8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil....

10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden....

15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. [I.e., IMHO Man's divine appointment as steward, not "owner," of of God's Creation, or any aspect of it.]

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet [i.e., "fitting," or "appropriate"] for him.

So the Lord God had made Adam steward of all the Creation He made, and left it to Adam to control the "epistemology" of His Creation by investing in Adam the divine privilege of naming all the created things.

Well, suffice to say, according to Genesis 2, Adam did not find "help" to meet his perceived loneliness, absent another being like himself. And so God created Eve....

The rest is "history."

Thank you so much for writing, dear tacticalogic!

657 posted on 10/21/2013 5:41:05 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl
But without the reductionist censorship, the information could be conveyed.

I thought we'd already established that you cannot convey "experience".

658 posted on 10/21/2013 5:51:26 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: YHAOS

Thank you for your encouragements, dear YHAOS!


659 posted on 10/21/2013 7:10:01 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop

Thank you for your encouragements, dearest sister in Christ!


660 posted on 10/21/2013 7:10:38 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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