Posted on 04/02/2013 4:03:00 PM PDT by plain talk
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has responded to a letter dated November 13, 2012 from Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) regarding the agency's ammunition purchases. Sen. Coburn published the response on the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs website yesterday, April 1, 2013.
The response, dated February 4, 2013, says that DHS buys ammunition in bulk to "significantly lower costs."
(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...
Taget Practice was the first excuse they gave. Then when real gun owners noted that you practice with chaep wad-cutters and not expensive hollow-point they changed to this excuse...
So the question still remains - how much do they expect the cost savings to be by buying in bulk? Lets see the figues...
Wait... you DID do calculations beforehand- didn’t you?
And Ammo-makers, which ones of you gave them a bulk discount?
Speak up, lets hear how much they ‘saved’?
That ought to keep us in line.
I guess I better start practicing my shot more frequently. We all should!
Not lately. I bought in bulk case lot quantities a few years ago. 15k each of .356 and .451.
I've been patiently trying to explain this to no effect, but here's another try.
DHS IS NOT BUYING 1.6 BILLION ROUNDS IN 2013. DHS IS NOT BUYING 1.6 BILLION ROUNDS OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. PERIOD.
It's an IDIQ (Indefinite Delivery, Indefinite Quantity) contract. It's also a FIVE YEAR contract.
For these contracts, you put a "not to exceed" or an "up to" number that is ridiculously and unrealistically high to make sure you have NO chance to go over it. For EACH type of round, some low-level contract flunky at DHS put a ridiculously high number in the contract, at least 2, or even 3 or 4 times more rounds than they expect to buy; when you ADD all of those numbers up, you get an even more ridiculously high number.
Those "up to" numbers haven't been purchased and aren't required to be purchased. The ACTUAL purchases are individual purchase orders under the overarching IDIQ.
Here's an example of one of these contracts (military); the DHS ammo contract is exactly like this:
Those deals list the maximum values of awards over multiyear periods, rather than guaranteed funding, and there is little chance the companies will receive the announced contract values.
In some cases, the Defense Department announces contracts with unrealistically high ceilings to avoid the inconvenience of altering agreements later to meet unexpected needs, said Friel of Bloomberg Industries.
For example, Tactical & Survival Specialties Inc. won the department’s biggest award last month, with a potential maximum value of $5.6 billion. The closely held Harrisonburg, Virginia-based company sells gear such as body armor, flashlights and pocket knives.
It has supplied the Pentagon under the tactical equipment program since 2009 and received just $29 million in orders in fiscal 2012, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
Why aren’t these agents of the Socialist Insecurity office armed with beanbags like our border patrol agents who are frequently fired upon by narcoterrorists, some of whom were armed by the Obama Administration’s Injustice Department?
If that's all they are interested in, then why aren't they buying 1.6 billion toothbrushes?
Also, there are way too many law enforcement units in departments/agencies that should not have such units, and this has been building before Obambi.
Okay, say you're right (where do you get your stats?). Is there any proof they are buying mass quantities of hollow points? If they are, that is disturbing.
Your local police department has likely been carrying around Hollow Points for decades and you haven't panicked about that.
They are ideal for law enforcement because it reduces the chances of rounds passing through a perp to an innocent.
And nobody is buying a billion rounds of anything, as I've tried to point out over and over again. The entire story is a non-story.
DHS, lowering the cost of Martial Law since 2001.....
What is disturbing to me is that they don’t have the shooters to justify the quantity of rounds per year.
I’d really love to see the allocation of rounds and the training plans.
Did not know that.
Appreciate the info.
The states are from the DHS Letter responding to Senator Coburn’s questions:
And to the people that will inevitably scream “THEY’RE LYING!” remember the WHOLE STORY is based on information from DHS. The original panic came from stupid people misinterpreting a publically released solicitations and ontract awards from DHS.
The best explanation of the DHS solicitations and contracts can be found at:
When you "know" something that isn't true, your creditability on all subjects is diminished to zero.
It is The Hague Conventions that deals with the means to conduct civilized warfare. The Geneva Conventions primarily deal with the treatment of prisoners of war.
The U.S. is not a signatory on the Hague Conventions so is not bound by the limitations on ammunition, even though we generally follow the rules. More importantly, The Hague Conventions only apply to warfare between countries, not when fighting non-uniformed terrorists or Civil wars.
What else do you know that is not true?
“The US military may not fire upon US citizens, but I wouldn’t put it past the Chinese or Nork soldiers...”
I would agree with you about the Military though. At least for now I trust them a hell of a lot more than America’s enemy in the White House.
“Aren’t they buying massive quantities of guns and ammo to create a shortage for citizen gun owners?”
I stopped in to speak with a friend who works at a large sporting goods store and he said they have been told not to anticipate receiving any substantive ammunition shippments until October.
As I left the store, I glanced at the shelves that once held ammunition and there was a professionally drafted sign that stated that the current shortage of ammunition was caused by civilian hoarders who bought up large quantities of ammo and now sell it on the internet for a large profit.
I’d never seen the sign before, but I was tempted to cross out “civilian” and write “government” in its place.
We all know this is merely a tactic used in place of gun control......allow people to own guns, but make it impossible for them to purchase ammunition.
EODGUY
Since this big "purchase" by DHS first came up, I still believed the shortage of ammo is due to increased buying by the citizenry. The same reason the shelves are bare of popular weapons in the gun stores. However, I don't trust DC and think it wise for all to question their motives.
What do you think of so many benign departments/agencies having law enforcement units? I personally, think it has gotten out of hand, along with everything else the Fedgov does.
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