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Do Libertarians Really "Want a World Without Moral Judgments"?
Reason ^
| 03/22/2013
| Nick Gillespie
Posted on 03/22/2013 8:51:10 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
On March 15 in The New York Times, liberal journalist and author Richard Reeves wrote an op-ed about the new plan in New York City to dramatize the many negative effects of teen pregnancy on girls who give birth before graduating high school and outside of a stable two-parent unit. Billboards and other advertisements around the city, for instance, point out that unwed teen mothers are twice as likely to not finish high school as girls who don't give birth before graduating.
With many smart qualifications, Reeves makes a case for shaming regarding teen pregnancy and other behaviors, and he does it from a liberal POV:
A society purged of shame might sound good in theory. But it would be terrible in practice. We need a sense of shame to live well together. For those with liberal instincts, this is necessarily hard. But it is also necessary.
My issue is less with Reeves' views on public shaming per se and more on an aside he makes about libertarians:
Libertarians might want a world without moral judgments, in which teen pregnancy carries no stigma at all. And paternalists might want the state to enshrine judgments in law perhaps by raising the age of sexual consent or mandating contraception. True liberals, though, believe we can hold one another to moral account without coercion. We must not shy away from shame.
I submit to you that few statements are more wrong than saying "libertarians might want a world without moral judgments." From my vantage point, one of the things to which libertarianism is dedicated is the proliferation of moral judgments by freeing people up to the greatest degree possible to create their own ways of being in the world. To conflate the live and let live ethos at the heart of the classical liberal and libertarian project with an essentially nihilistic dismissal of pluralism and tolerance is a gigantic error. It's like saying that because religious dissenters want to abolish a single state church that they are anti-god.
As the anthropologist Grant McCracken argued in a 1998 Reason story called "The Politics of Plenitude," our world is characterized by a "quickening speciation" of social types and sub-cultures, a liberating reality that is typically mistaken for the end of the world and the end of all morality. McCracken notes that plenitude particularly aggrieves conservatives, because they mistake an urge to escape "a morality" for an attempt to abolish "all morality." He explains:
The right acts as if the many groups thrown off by plenitude harbor an anarchic tendency, that people have become gays, feminists, or Deadheads in order to escape morality. This is not the logic of plenitude. These people have reinvented themselves merely to escape a morality, not all morality. New communities set to work immediately in the creation of new moralities. Chaos does not ensue; convention, even orthodoxy, returns. Liminality is the slingshot that allows new groups to free themselves from the gravitational field of the old moralities they must escape. But liminality is almost never the condition that prevails once this liberation has been accomplished.
courtesy PBSReeves is no conservative. He's a devotee of John Stuart Mill and, I rush to add, has said many positive things about Reason over the years. But his characterization of libertarians as uninterested in moral judgments proceeds from a very conservative - and very profound - misunderstanding of what I think we are all about. This sort of thinking typically emanates from the right - how many of us have had conversations with conservatives who equate ending drug prohibition with a case not simply for occasional use of currently illegal drugs but for an absolute embrace of never-ending intoxication and stupefaction? - but apparently it harbors a home on the left as well. (Go here to read part of a debate I had with Jonah Goldberg a decade ago on the same basic topic).
Shame is certainly not the first thing that most libertarians I know reach for in high-minded policy discussions or less serious conversations. On the narrow question of reducing teen pregnancy - which has in any case reached historic lows over the past decades - it's far from clear the role the sort of public shaming enivisioned by New York authorities will play compared to, say, frank discussions of the harshly reduced opportunities faced by young mothers. Certainly, it may make certain policymakers and politicians feel good, but that is hardly any ground by which to analyze the efficacy of a given policy (to his credit, Reeves calls for a cost-benefit analysis himself).
But it's time to start swatting away random accusations of libertarians as nihilists simply because we don't sign on to every given moralistic agenda that is proposed or enacted in the name of the greater good. No less a buttoned-down character than Friedrich Hayek once wrote that "to live and work successfully with others requires more than faithfulness to one's concrete aims. It requires an intellectual commitment to a type of order in which, even on issues which to one are fundamental, others are allowed to pursue different ends." The libertarian commitment to true pluralism and tolerance is not easy to maintain, but it remains exactly the sort of gesture that allows for differing moralities to flourish and, one hopes, new and better ways of living to emerge.
TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: libertarianism; libertarians; morality
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
"No matter how one cuts the pie, in practice the Libertarian position, devolves down to maximizing personal pleasure and the exercise of power over others."
Your pie cutter is broken.
To: TheThirdRuffian
For example, the libertarian position is to support the right of a motel owner to refuse to rent to sodomites.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nope. That is a CONSERVATIVE position. A lib would argue there is no need for a law for or against enforcing a motel owner to rent to sodomites.
In fact - if a state passes laws that require renting to sodomites - the lib places greater value on that law over his own personal convictions.
42
posted on
03/22/2013 9:41:13 AM PDT
by
Responsibility2nd
(NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
To: SeekAndFind
Yes. Libertarians are airy Utopians, as much fantasists as any Marxist, just in a different direction.
43
posted on
03/22/2013 9:41:30 AM PDT
by
DesScorp
To: DesScorp
44
posted on
03/22/2013 9:42:00 AM PDT
by
GeronL
(http://asspos.blogspot.com)
To: Gene Eric
Clearly the libertarian position is that those entities should be free to discriminate against or in favor of gay "married" couples, straight couples, interracial couples, singles, or whoever the want. Its a statist position to say they should not be free.
Libertarians agree - as do I.
45
posted on
03/22/2013 9:42:41 AM PDT
by
JustSayNoToNannies
("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
To: SeekAndFind
Governments should not be using taxpayers' money on "moral judgments". They should stick to the few jobs for which they are granted authority (which boils down to "keeping the peace").
To: Responsibility2nd; TheThirdRuffian
if a state passes laws that require renting to sodomites - the lib places greater value on that law over his own personal convictions. Can you offer any reason for anyone to believe your counterintuitive claim?
47
posted on
03/22/2013 9:44:12 AM PDT
by
JustSayNoToNannies
("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
To: Tax-chick
There is no liberty interest in the homosexual "marriage" movement. It is an authoritarian position, dedicated to using the police power of the state to force others to act against their moral or pragmatic beliefs about certain kinds of behavior.
Well said. Philosophically that should be the libertarian position but the Libertarian party rarely lets that get in their way of furthering "freedom" without consequence.
48
posted on
03/22/2013 9:46:44 AM PDT
by
Durus
(You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
To: MrB
>> Put simply, if you dont self-govern,
you have to be governed.
One can only fight against those that desire to govern others. And that is essentially self-governance.
49
posted on
03/22/2013 9:49:29 AM PDT
by
Gene Eric
(The Palin Doctrine.)
To: JustSayNoToNannies
...the lib places greater value on that law over his own personal convictions. I posted that even before I knew you were on this thread. But it applies to you. You are the best example of a liberal supporting liberal agendas over you own personal convictions more than anyone else I know.
You claim you don't use drugs, but you are here every freaking day advocating for drug usage. You support the states who voted in legalized drugs, even though you claim you don't use them.
You are a hypocrite and you are immoral. You are the poster boy for Libertarianism.
50
posted on
03/22/2013 9:50:34 AM PDT
by
Responsibility2nd
(NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
To: Hemingway's Ghost
51
posted on
03/22/2013 9:50:36 AM PDT
by
John Valentine
(Deep in the Heart of Texas)
To: ClearCase_guy
Ever see anybody
discuss religion? Very rude. Very loud. No nuance. No real discussion. Fixed it for you.
To: SeekAndFind
The absence of a moral judgment is itself a moral judgment, just as the rejection of certain values is the expression of others.
This “moral neutrality” argument is as bankrupt as nihilism.
53
posted on
03/22/2013 9:53:27 AM PDT
by
IronJack
(=)
To: Tax-chick
I am a libertarian at heart and I know that morals ARE norms. Morality does not exist for a man stranded on a desert island.
But, those moral norms must come from parents, teachers, mentors, priests, ministers, friends and relatives. NOT from the Government!
If there is one thing that I fervently pray for it is that these self-styled “Conservatives” would finally “get” is that the Government is NOT the arbiter of our morals - it never was and it never can be.
So called “Conservatives”, get over it, and take responsibility for your lives!
54
posted on
03/22/2013 9:54:52 AM PDT
by
John Valentine
(Deep in the Heart of Texas)
To: Responsibility2nd
if a state passes laws that require renting to sodomites - the lib places greater value on that law over his own personal convictions. Can you offer any reason for anyone to believe your counterintuitive claim?
You are the best example of a liberal supporting liberal agendas over you own personal convictions more than anyone else I know.
You claim you don't use drugs, but you are here every freaking day advocating for drug usage.
No, I advocate for the liberty of adults to use drugs if they choose.
Aside from that, you've drawn a false parallel. My personal conviction is that I and every other adult should be free to choose whether or not to use drugs, and that the right choice for me is to not use drugs. The correct parallel would be to a law requiring people to use drugs - which libertarians and I would oppose as steadfastly as we oppose laws requiring them not to.
55
posted on
03/22/2013 9:56:58 AM PDT
by
JustSayNoToNannies
("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
To: MrB
The founders never said “If you won't self rule we will rule you” as that would be inimical to the concept of a revolution predicated on individual liberty. What they did say is that if the general population is lawless and immoral then of course (being of the people) government will also be lawless and immoral. A lawless and immoral government leads to tyranny. Even if there happened to be a historical anomaly and a lawless society somehow ended up with a lawful moral government, they would have no way to govern as a immoral and lawless society simply cannot be governed.
56
posted on
03/22/2013 9:57:26 AM PDT
by
Durus
(You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
To: John Valentine
>> is that the Government is NOT the arbiter of our morals
Nor the enforcer.
57
posted on
03/22/2013 9:58:07 AM PDT
by
Gene Eric
(The Palin Doctrine.)
To: Tax-chick
I believe the author would argue that, if incest is your way of being in the world, then that is your moral judgment, and it is just as valid as anyone else's moral judgment and way of being in the world. And just how in the name of the living Savior do you come to that mind-bending conclusion? Surely not baed on evidence of any kind.
58
posted on
03/22/2013 9:59:07 AM PDT
by
John Valentine
(Deep in the Heart of Texas)
To: Durus
The founders never said If you won't self rule we will rule you I didn't intend to imply that. My understanding parallels yours, that our freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution can only be for the governance of a moral and religious (ie, referencing a moral code not subject to human whims) people.
59
posted on
03/22/2013 10:00:19 AM PDT
by
MrB
(The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
To: Gene Eric
Nor the enforcer. Of course not. Sorry I omitted to make that clear. BUT, there are certain laws that have their basis in universal morality - like the law against murder for example, that I do want the State to enforce as preferable to the alternative - vendettas.
60
posted on
03/22/2013 10:01:26 AM PDT
by
John Valentine
(Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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