Back to the thread; check out # 63 , # 64 , # 80 .
Then # 26 , # 56 .
In fact, the entire second page has lots of information.
Thanks thouworm.
Posted on 12/29/2011 11:17:13 PM PST by neverdem
‘Fast and Furious’ Linked to Immunity Deal Between U.S. and Sinaloa Cartel, Trafficking Defendant Alleges in Court Papers
A Mexican drug trafficker awaiting trial in a Chicago federal court claims that the notorious Sinaloa cartel received weapons from "Operation Fast and Furious" under an alleged immunity agreement that the U.S. government made with cartel leaders, in exchange for information on rival gangs.
The defendant in a trafficking case before the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Vicente Jesus Zambada-Niebla, also claims the immunity deal allowed the criminal cartel to "continue to smuggle tons of illicit drugs" into the United States.
He wants the U.S. government to provide documents relating to the botched gun running sting operation along the southwest border, arguing that it would benefit his defense.
Operation Fast and Furious, which began in September 2009, saw the Phoenix office of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives supervise the sale of guns to straw purchasers with the intent of tracing the guns to Mexican drug trafficking organizations and prosecuting their members. The ATF allowed about 2,000 guns to be sold in this manner.
The operation came under congressional scrutiny after it was linked to the December 2010 murder of U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry at the hands of Mexican bandits.
An investigative report, spearheaded by Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), found that most of the weapons provided to Mexican criminals under the operation were going to the Sinaloa cartel, arguably one of the world's largest drug trafficking organizations.
In a court pleading filed last July, Zambada-Niebla made the claims about an immunity deal.
"Mr. Zambada-Niebla believes that the documentation that he requests will confirm that the weapons received by Sinaloa Cartel members and its leaders in Operation 'Fast & Furious' were provided under the agreement entered into between the United States government and [a Mexican lawyer] on behalf of the Sinaloa Cartel that is the subject of his defense...," it said.
"Mr. Zambada-Niebla believes that the documentation will also provide evidence showing that the United States government has a policy and pattern of providing benefits, including immunity, to cartel leaders, including the Sinaloa Cartel and their members, who are willing to provide information against rival drug cartels."
The defendant argued that he is protected from federal prosecution for trafficking drugs into the U.S. between 2004 and 2009 under an alleged immunity deal struck between the U.S. government and Sinaloa leaders.
According to court documents, Zambada-Niebla claims that the immunity deal provided the cartel's leadership with "carte blanche to continue to smuggle tons of illicit drugs into Chicago and the rest of the United States" in exchange for information on rival drug cartels.
U.S. prosecutors deny the existence of such an immunity deal between the U.S. government and the cartel.
Nevertheless, the U.S. government last September filed a motion to invoke the Classified Information Procedures Act, which is aimed at assuring that national security information stemming from criminal cases – such as details associated with CIA operations – are not leaked to the public during court proceedings.
In a court pleading filed in September, U.S. prosecutors claimed that Zambada-Niebla's allegations about Fast and Furious have no merit.
"Defendant requests all information in the possession of the U.S. government related to an ATF investigation referred to as 'Fast and Furious'..." it said. "Defendants request related to Fast and Furious... and other unrelated matters are gratuitous and wholly unrelated to any legitimate discovery issues in this case."
Zambada-Niebla, who was arrested in Mexico in March 2009 and extradited to the U.S. eleven months later, is accused of smuggling tons of cocaine and heroin into the U.S.
He claims he was working on behalf of the U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, FBI, and U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, court documents show.
The defendant's pleading highlighted a July 2011 letter sent by Issa and Grassley to Attorney General Eric Holder, "suggesting that multiple United States agencies were employing as informants members of Mexican drug organizations."
"The evidence seems to indicate that the Justice Department not only allowed criminals to smuggle weapons, but that tax payers' dollars in the form of informant payments, may have financed those engaging in such activities," the pleading added.
Sheesh!!! Some alert soul finally responded to my post and saw a few connecting dots...beloved MM.
More than a few dots. I barely got started -— motive, opportunity, and an overarching crime.
Let me know when you have the thread posted. I retained the html and may be able to save you some time.
That’s true, and it is about time to start contacting our military about “restoring our Government to a earlier time”
Problems is, the Bush administration DID have a “Fast and Furious” type operation - but none of the guns got away and none of them were used to murder people. It is awfully hard to spin that...
With Bush the guns were tracked via gps devices and surveillance AND done in cooperation with the mexcian Government. Bush is Evil, Obama is Virtuous / sarc
Very nicely done.
Just immunity ... no ca$h??
What a rip off .. the terrorists should have held out for taxpayer dollar$!!
great information. I wonder how Sheriff joe could use this in the case against him by Holder & Co.
“*** So the Chicago Mob was trading guns to the Sinaloa Drug Cartel in trade for information the Chicago Mob could use ..... ***
Kindly refrain from impugning the integrity of ‘The Chicago Mob’.
The guns and drugs involved went to Mexican Street Gangs ‘prolly’, the Latin Kings and others like them across the city. ‘The Mob’ or as they’re also known, ‘The Outfit’, would never deal with scum like those involved in F&F.
It’s bad enough when they have to deal with the scummy Chicago Politicians. But fortunately they (The Mob) can go to confession and do penance for that.
Thank you.
Honest Frankie he meant no offense. Please don’t whack him and stick him in a car trunk out at O’Hare Airport. “
hahaha now THAT’s funny :))
Little Ray wrote:
Problems is, the Bush administration DID have a “Fast and Furious” type operation - but none of the guns got away and none of them were used to murder people. It is awfully hard to spin that...
I don't know if and when any in the Sinoloa cartel got immunity, but Operation Wide Receiver under GWB was reported as having used tracking devices for at most a few hundred firearms, and that the Mexican gov't was not kept in the dark. When they still lost track of the weapons, Wide Receiver was shut down.
In Fast & Furious, knowing already what happened in Wide Receiver, and without any way of tracking the weapons, they could only expect to recover the weapons at crime scenes.
As I said, it was on purpose. They never meant to track the guns.
And what would you suggest they do about it? The military has absolutely nothing to do with border security. If you want them to be border control agents you’d first have to change a few laws, including posse comitatus.
Cindie
Tell me once more just exactly WHY we have a war on some drugs if it’s NOT merely a means of controlling We, the People????? Abolish that freaking war, jail EVERYBODY that works at DEA, ATF, FBI and most all the other alphabet agencies that have no place in a free society.
They still are. Just entice some details out of any one of them next chance you get. They’re 100 percent in favor of everything he does.
Back to the thread; check out # 63 , # 64 , # 80 .
Then # 26 , # 56 .
In fact, the entire second page has lots of information.
Thanks thouworm.
What can happen to change this? If every decent honest person is threatened and cannot fight?
The ATF isn’t the military,it is a mid-level(on the Totem) Federal agency that had dreams of making it to the big time.
Anyway this case isn’t going away.
imagine if this gangsters lawyer had connections to the Obama Justice Dept and put this Perp up to this defense in order to Wag the Dog and derail the Gun Control Conspiracy motive
G-d. Polar shift. A pandemic of sanity. I don’t know.
I would suggest the military replace some of these ‘wannabe’ agencies. Supposedly the US military can’t/won’t/is excluded from firing on US citizens so I would trust their guns would be aimed in the proper direction while patrolling the US border. I don’t think I would have to worry about the military coming to burn down my house to confiscate any guns or persecute me on religious grounds. Can always rely on the FBI and ATF for that.
The Coast Guard seems to be able to perform a decent job when interacting with citizens on the high seas and in ports, they are part of our military.
Border patrol is pretty much worthless, we could make their job redundant if people actually had to show cause to drive and work in the US by making them become citizens or pay a fee to use our services. If you have a car license you can vote, what’s up with that?
You probably think everything is just fine, go back to sleep.
Thanks for the ping.
It’s all interconnected: illegal aliens marching through our permeable southern border, the drug cartels controlling border access points, the Muslim Brotherhood, ATF, and lots and lots of money from drugs, money that can easily be laundered for many purposes.
#26 is important and I believe they’ll use it for a PR boost close to the election.
I absolutely did NOT say everything was fine. There will have to be changes in the law to engage the military. Whether that’s what the citizens of the country want remains to be seen. My son is home on leave and I was talking to him about this tonight. He doesn’t really think it’s a good idea either because he’s trained into blow stuff up and break things. And while they’re engaged in illegal activity some of those crossing the clandestinely crossing the border ARE citizens. For the most part our agencies are the reflection of those in the executive branch that run them. I agree the Coast Guard does an excellent job. My oldest son was a Coastie. However, they aren’t landlubbers. Border patrol could be better trained and there could be more of them. They could be given the same kind of autonomy as the military. It requires specialized training but when the president and his appointees aren’t interested in enforcing our laws it doesn’t matter who you have at the border. I’d love to see the laws currently on the books enforced...adding new laws or different people (military, FBI, etc.) to stand around the border and NOT enforce them (depending on admin policy)won’t make a bit of difference. The only way we can see what laws need to be tightened and/or changed is to start enforcing them.
Cindie
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