Posted on 12/09/2011 7:04:01 PM PST by giotto
Edited on 12/10/2011 10:32:56 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Santayana defined fanaticism as redoubling your effort while losing sight of your goal. America’s recent discussions about the war on terror would give him few grounds to change his view.
Several GOP presidential candidates have said they would support bringing back waterboarding, a practice the U.S. prosecuted as a war crime after WWII. Apparently it’s only torture when the other side does it.
Last week the Senate was consumed with debate over a defense bill. Among its provisions: an amendment by New Hampshire Republican Sen. Kelly Ayotte to nullify an executive order banning torture. Another proposal: allowing U.S. citizens captured on U.S. soil to be held indefinitely without charge by the U.S. military. (An amendment to strike that language from the bill failed, despite the commendable support of Virginia Sens. Mark Warner and Jim Webb.) Yet another provision would require civilian authorities to hand over terrorism suspects to the military.
Supporters of the detention provision noted language stipulating that the “requirement” to detain a person in military custody “does not extend to citizens in the United States.” But as critics of the measure noted, there is a difference between what is required and what is allowed. The bill “does not preclude U.S. citizens from being detained indefinitely,” according to Rep. Justin Amash. Sen. Lindsey Graham put it more bluntly: the bill declares “that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and those suspected of terrorism can be held indefinitely without charge, “American citizen or not.”
Excerpt, read more at Reason.com
We are fast approaching the point where we have neither liberty nor security.
http://reason.com/archives/2011/12/06/conservatives-drop-their-love-for-the-co
The constitution is not a suicide document.
The pollies like power and the illusion of knowing better than we do what’s best for us.
Too many of the people don’t want the responsibility of freedom.
We need God to raise up a prophet. We’re in trouble.
My guess, soon the only true Constitution-loving conservatives will be practicing Christians. Why? Because sooner or later, it comes down to either trusting man (government) or God (government-limiting Constitution).
It makes too much sense to declare that the whole reason for this is that the Feds have imported lots of Mohammedans into this country, that if they were exported 99.8% of the threat would be gone, and then there would be no need to impose Big Brother restrictions on U.S. citizens our founders would never have tolerated (”Patriot Act”, strip searches of grandmothers at airports, warrantless wiretaps, etc. etc.)
Because it makes too much sense, the Republicrats will never do it. So expect more of the same.
What piece of garbage article. Belongs in file 13.
Please cite for me, Article and Section, of the US Constitution that gives either the Legislative or the Executive branch the specific, enumerated power to strip American citizens of their 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendment rights.
Thanks in advance.
L
So in other words, NOT giving the president the power to disappear his political enemies, simply by labeling them “terrorists,” would be suicide? NOT strip searching 87 year old woman at airports would be suicide?
I assume you’ll be apologizing personally to the Japanese for their treatment during WWII.
If you're speaking of the American citizens of Japanese descent who were wrongfully stripped of their Constitutional rights and property by Roosevelt, you're damned right I will.
You should, too.
While the idea that waterboarding is torture is ridiculous, the quote "The constitution is not a suicide document" is a scary argument.
It presumes that the Constitution has problems that could get us killed, so it's OK to ignore these flaws if the need arises. That is exactly what the liberals argue. They think this "inherently flawed document" has to be ignored for the higher good of society.
If the Constitution could get us killed, then amend it! Once we justify violating the Constitution, then on what do we base the authority of the government? At that point, the government is acting without authority, and I do not trust the best government, let alone our government.
As for waterboarding, I know someone who was waterboarded by the US military. It was part of her training. So are these kooks who call it torture suggesting we're torturing our soldiers? If so, they should demand we stop torture during training.
Emergency Powers
Over the years, Presidents have claimed to have emergency powers in times of crisis. These Inherent Powers have been used both at home and overseas. The most common use of emergency powers is to declare a state of emergency which allows the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to bypass normal administrative and jurisdictional rules. Declarations of emergency can also provide special federal aid such as during the Flood of 1993 along the Mississippi River or in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. President Abraham Lincoln used his emergency powers to suspend the writ of habeas corpus in Maryland during the American Civil War. President Harry Truman was also denied emergency powers by the Court in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer when he tried to nationalize the nation’s steel mills.
Got that off Wikipedia.
It’s definitely a balancing act.
If the constitution literally stands in the way of finding out that somebody is going to drop a nuke on New York city, what do you do?
At the same time, how do you prevent the seizure of rights from becoming permanent.
Apparently it’s only torture when the other side does it.
Well duh, war crimes are only committed by the losing side. It’s always been thus.
Where exactly are these so called "emergency powers" enumerated in the Constitution? Article and Section if you please.
Until you can do that, every word you type is utter bull****.
I'll wait.
Youre welcome to show me that they cannot ever, even if it means the death of every US citizen, defend the country as needed.
Obviously, it has too do with navigable waters or interstate commerce. Oh, maybe the general welfare clause. It’s too the point that I wish the feds would just drop the whole constitution and just admit that they do things because they have the biggest army.
That has yet to be seen. If I had been a delegate, I would have argued for a REQUIREMENT that any politician or government employee convicted of ANY crime, be hanged by the neck until dead.
That might have extended our most excellent run.
But as it is, the Constitution is pretty much a dead letter document, honored only in the breach.
I predict suicide for the former Republic, unless things change back to the founder's intent.
And if this one doesn't work out... we can write a new one, we have a history of doing that.
/johnny
And we all know how well that worked out.
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