Posted on 10/18/2011 7:08:00 PM PDT by smoothsailing
Bryan Preston
October 18, 2011
There were two Ricks on debate stage tonight, and both came in loaded up and ready to hunt. Rick Santorum threw a blizzard of punches at Mitt Romney early over his claim that as president, Romney, the author of RomneyCare, would repeal ObamaCare. The punches landed and the damage showed on Romney’s face. Rick Perry came in loaded up to speak aggressively for his energy plan, and spoke with an energy and conviction that has not come through in previous debates. Romney came under the most intense fire he has faced in any of the 2011 debates and while he handled it well, the criticisms of his record are legitimate and will sting. Romney’s red face as he tried to to redirect the examination over to Newt Gingrich revealed that he knew the night wasn’t going well for him.
Herman Cain also faced the toughest questioning of any debate so far, regarding his 9-9-9 tax plan, and handled it mostly with his usual humor and wit. The former talk radio host can engage in an open debate with the best of them, but his lack of depth showed in spots. He didn’t seem to know the details of his 9-9-9 plan early on. Cain did do well when discussing his ideas for reforming health care: No mandates, but focus on market-based reforms like allowing purchase across state lines. Nothing new, but nothing wrong with any of it either.
Perry also hit Romney directly for “hypocrisy” for having hired illegal aliens. Romney laughed and denied, but the story has been out there since 2007 or thereabouts. Romney lost his cool, for the second time. Perry scored another direct hit, and Mitt turned red again. The ice man melted.
Perry also did well on the question of securing the border: It’s about a fence, plus other security measures including technology and boots on the ground. Bachmann got in a jab about the president’s illegal alien relatives who keep popping up in the news, before moving on to declare that she would build a fence along the entire border. There is actually less policy daylight between most of the candidates on the border than the stage arguments suggest, but the arguments drew out some personalities, and it’s hard to see Romney benefiting from the exchange.
Tonight’s was the most lively debate, and does have the potential to change the race a bit. Perry came to fight and from tax policy to spending to funding the UN, showed that his issue knowledge is broad. Romney wasn’t prepared to take hits from so many other candidates. Romney’s packed supporters in the audience and other blogs provided some soundtrack to back their man up but I doubt it did much good. Romney’s cool broke too many times for his own good. His whining about being talked over, when he isn’t shy about interrupting others, was entertaining but revealed a thin skin. Romney probably had his best moment during the religion debate, but that’s such tired ground now and Romney has so overreached on that issue that it’s unlikely to make any difference.
This was Perry’s best night. He took control when he needed to, threw the president’s and his competitors’ words against them at opportune moments, and showed a strong and knowledgeable presence going toe to toe with Romney. Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Michele Bachmann also had good nights. Gingrich can speak brilliantly on any policy thrown at him. His brief closing statement showed that he is among the adults in the room. Santorum spoke very well on values. Cain and Romney took sustained fire and handled it unevenly. Cain was at his worst on the question of whether he would contemplate releasing terrorists held at Gitmo in exchange for an American hostage. There is simply no way to justify his answer to Wolf Blitzer, earlier today. Ron Paul was, infuriatingly, Ron Paul, capable of saying things at the edge of brilliance but coupling them with statements that make little sense or betray a hole in his moral thinking. While I admire his logical mind, I don’t admire some of the places it takes him.
The clear winner tonight was Rick Perry. He looked like a seasoned leader who has found his voice, at last. Newt Gingrich came in a strong second, Cain and Santorum follow him and Romney follows them. He was strong in spots but had trouble keeping his cool, an d had no good answers to explain his own policy history. Passion is one thing; all of the candidates brought that tonight. Edging close to revealing a Hulk moment is something else.
There was something else different about tonight’s debate. In past debates, Romney’s press team has easily outpaced all of the other campaigns combined in the number of press releases they sent out while the debate continued. Not so, tonight. The Perry press team must have rolled over the Romney team 8 to 1 or more. From the top on down, the Perry team is moving with a new energy.
He's wanting to be V.P. and nothing else.
” I did think Newt was amazing. “ <<<
Every Freeper is saying that all over the net, or thinking it. Imagine if all conservatives were thinking that at the same time? Newt would be leaving the whole field in the dust, in so far as oratory skills. As for Obama up against Newt in a debate. Poof. Someone said they could put such a debate up on pay per view and we could settle the national debt! LOL.
Perry just broke out into the open and Romney will wind up eating his.....um....er.....dust?
A debate is nowhere to roll out, or even discuss whole policies. You do neither your policy plan nor yourself justice in 60 seconds. Please.
“Shouldn’t you say...Yo Vick, get up off yo back....”
You need to call off the dogs.
BINGO! (Collect your prize from the Nun at the front desk.)
So far, just off of highlights, Romney was very effective. Haven't even seen Cain yet. But if he's defending a soon-to-be-defunct tax plan, what's the point now?
So far I saw Romney scoring body blows against Perry and Gingrich, both times while under attack. He's got some game.
I'm curious why you blame them for the current field of candidates?
“I want a candidate that will take all 57 states”
It’s 60 states when you include the newly annexed Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.
Perry balanced the state budget with deep cuts. Teachers, firemen, police officers were cut. He handed out the county limits and each county in Texas had to decide where the cuts came from. This was very recent, this year.
This is where Perry is similar to Scott Walker, governor of Wisconsin.
Some of that money was deemed as re-payment for Medicare reimbursement the White House denied Texas, due in large part to the cost of illegal alien childbirth in Texas hospitals where Texas taxpayers shouldered the burden and Washington denied Medicare reimbursement while forcing Texas to deliver services.
So, you dam right.
“I thought Perry sounded stronger tonight, but he must not be pulled into the bickering contests with Romney. That is NOT presidential.”
I have to slightly disagree with you here. I thought it was about time someone drew some blood on Romney, and Perry, Santorum and Gingrich all did a nice job going after him. I agree that most of the focus should be on this issues, but I thought it was absolutely appropriate for Perry to call Romney out on his hypocrisy over illegals. And Romney got caught in a lie over it. There’s plenty of time in future debates to focus on substance, but I’ve been waiting 8 debates to finally see Romney bleed. Did it drag Perry down to be the one to do it? Maybe a little. But in the long run, I think it will be worth it. The more Romney is exposed as the phony RINO that he is, the better.
BTW-I was quite disappointed that Bachmann (again!!) failed to lay a glove on Romney, and even protected him by interrupting Santorum while he was making some hard-hitting points. I don’t know what’s up with her. I like her position on the issues, but she’s clearly a Romney staking horse.
Who then? The Dummkopf?
Re: #283, never implied Romney was honest and have never hawked for him in any form. Perry’s attack on that subject was misguided as I pointed out; he tried to use that phony diversionary tactic and it smacked of desperation. BTW just because something is veto proof doesn’t mean you can’t veto it anyway. That’s what I would want my governor (and he is my governor) to do.
I want someone other than Romney to win this thing. At this stage, Cain is more viable than Perry. But if worse comes to worse, I would rather have a fake crony from New Hampshire over a Kenyan citizen that doesn’t rightfully belong in the White House. How ‘bout you?
I don’t know if Perry will move up in the polls because of this, but I think he stopped the bleeding. He’s still got alot of work to do. “ <<<
Spot on. I do not want to see a pile on against Cain developing. At least Cain has breached the line and brought something bold to the table to open the discussion for actual SYSTEMIC CHANGE. Even Paul Ryan has respect for someone bringing specifics, finally, for a starting point, and at minimum his plan is a counter to Obama doubling down on his ideology. Newt will always carry the day in debate won’t he. You know, he is the only candidate everyone agrees with entirely! Think about that. He will be climbing that’s for sure. Rick has work to do to be able to sell his great gig in Texas, but he is definitely coming along.
No, that isn’t how it works. The 9% sales tax only triggers at point of retail sale. Which is why it isn’t a VAT.
This explains it.
Thanks for introducing me to Jack Wheeler....I just did a search and learned more.
What a fascinsting man! Perry should talk with him before every debate.
You mean that Jet Fighter driving, C-130 Transport Air Force captain Dummkopf?
Never heard of him.........
I disagree that Perry came off as being dishonest in his charge that Romney hired illegal aliens. To the contrary, if you review the exchange, Romney is the one who was dishonest. He first said ‘he had never hired any illegals’, and after interrupting and talking over Perry; claiming he had the right to talk, he admitted he had hired a lawn service and fired them a year later...after being exposed by a newspaper. His supporters claim the lawn service hired the illegals, but no one has said if the lawn service was operated by immigrants - legal or illegal. As Cain would say, ‘they’re mixing apples and oranges’. First he didn’t, then he did...is that dishonest or just another of his flip flops? He should not be allowed to monopolize others’ time when he interrupts and talks over them so the audience can’t understand exactly what they are saying about him.
I supported Romney in 2008, but not again. He is too arrogant, and does not appear to be the most honest of the candidates. He wrote in his book that Romneycare was a good policy for the nation. Now that he knows it’s an unpopular proposal, he has claimed he never thought Romneycare was good for the nation; only for Massachusetts. Rick Santorum said Romney had gone back and taken it out of his book. Perry had already accused him of doing that in an earlier debate. Romney did his best to talk over Santorum when he was making this point! That’s not the actions of an honest person, and if you will pay careful attention, Romney will interrupt and try to talk over those who are scoring points against him. In a real debate, a moderator would not allow this. I thought debates followed Robert’s Rules of Order!
You might be interested in reading about Romney’s position on Romneycare here: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/santorum-romney-you-just-don-t-have-credibility-mitt-when-it-comes-repealing-obamacare
Yup, the solution to anchor babies is to drill for oil, Perry nailed it. Mega sarc.
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