Posted on 06/22/2010 6:06:11 AM PDT by kristinn
There is a lot of uproar about Gen. Stanley’s McChrystal’s disrespectful comments about his civilian bosses in the Obama administration, and President Obama would be entirely justified in firing McChrystal for statements McChrystal and his subordinates made to Rolling Stone. Obama is a deeply flawed commander-in-chief who doesn’t want to be fighting a war on terror, but he is the commander-in-chief. He should have a general who will carry out his policies without public complaint until the voters can decide to change those policies.
But the bigger problem with McChrystal’s leadership has always been the general’s devotion to unreasonably restrictive rules of engagement that are resulting in the unnecessary deaths of American and coalition forces.
We have had many, many accounts of the rules endangering Americans, and the Rolling Stone article provides more evidence. In the story, a soldier at Combat Outpost JFM who had earlier met with McChrystal was killed in a house that American officers had asked permission to destroy. From the article:
"The night before the general is scheduled to visit Sgt. Arroyo’s platoon for the memorial, I arrive at Combat Outpost JFM to speak with the soldiers he had gone on patrol with. JFM is a small encampment, ringed by high blast walls and guard towers. Almost all of the soldiers here have been on repeated combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and have seen some of the worst fighting of both wars. But they are especially angered by Ingram’s death. His commanders had repeatedly requested permission to tear down the house where Ingram was killed, noting that it was often used as a combat position by the Taliban. But due to McChrystal’s new restrictions to avoid upsetting civilians, the request had been denied. “These were abandoned houses,” fumes Staff Sgt. Kennith Hicks. “Nobody was coming back to live in them.”
"One soldier shows me the list of new regulations the platoon was given. “Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any ****ing sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a ****ing bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?"
Weren't we using the same ROE under W?
Because, at the close of the Vietnam war, the Communists were in charge in Washington. They were not rooted out until Reagan.
So, they changed their tactics and began infiltrating BOTH parties, which brought us to Compassionate Conservatism, and Obambi.
Now, the Communists are in charge again, and they are determined to stay in charge, this time. The only solution is a STRONGLY Conservative GOP with the guts not to back down when confronted. It appears that only the Conservative women have any guts, and that any "so-called" Conservative men have been sucessfully wussified.
I will be honestly surprised if there is any change in the leadership positions in Congress after the November elections.
You have nailed it, his loyalties lie with the enemy.
More or less, I think. That doesn't make it right. My point was that our only hope of changing it is after 2012. No guarantee though.
I’m afraid that even if republicans win in November we still won’t see a change in “leadership”.
Weren’t we using the same ROE under W?
No I think they were different then..
Under Obama a new medal is awarded: for “restraint”.
Face it
He’s a Marxist and a Muslim
and doesn’t want to succeed.
PS No life vests no oil cleanup ............
Even if we are, that doesn't make it right. You don't tie our troops' hands and tell them to go out and commit suicide.
And for the record, yes this is like the silly rules that our Accountant In Charge (McNamera) foisted upon us while we were in Viet Nam. One of the big differences then was that our commanders on the ground (and afloat) worked at finding ways around them.
No coffee for soldiers;
it’s funny, right?
Perhaps this is the reason why (from another thread today)
:
A few years ago I lost my job of 31 years at a mid-size bank, and, to carry me over to retirement, I took a job as a store cashier.
It was my trip to the real world. I live and work in Cleveland and the clientele flowing through our store daily is enough to give one pause. A large number of customers are on the food stamp card.
Or, as I prefer to call it, the Junk Food Card.
The big game is for two people to live together – one with some income and the other drawing unemployment or welfare (or even both drawing welfare). It is very common for food card purchases to consist entirely of pop, candy, ice cream, etc.
Then out comes the big wad of cash for the beer and cigarettes. With most of these people it seems very likely that they have no inclination to work at all, and gaming the system is how they wish to live.
How do we know the ROE aren’t coming from OBAMA???? That would be MY guess.
Brave Sir Robin is in charge.
Hand over Arizona to Mexico so the drug lords won’t shoot up our cops there. They’ll shoot our cops 10 miles farther into America than wherever we draw the demilitarized zone. Every retreat we make just brings the terror that much farther into the belly of America.
The people in Afghanistan are going to choose to be on whichever side will keep them safe. If America isn’t that side, then no matter how “nice” we are, the people are not going to risk being our allies and turning in the bad guys to us. If we can’t kick the murderers’ asses then we’re good for nothing in the eyes of the people there. Counterinsurgency is one thing, but if you run away from every fight, you won’t earn the respect of anybody - and ESPECIALLY not the people who need you to be strong.
Not quite. Things have got exponentially more dangerous for US troops in the last year or so and not just because theres more action.There have been ROEs the McChrystal has been clearly responsible for that are plain illogical.
The U.S. commander in Afghanistan will soon order U.S. and NATO forces to break away from fights with militants hiding among villagers, an official said Monday, announcing one of the strongest measures yet to protect Afghan civilians.
The most contentious civilian casualty cases in recent years occurred during battles in Afghan villages when U.S. airstrikes aimed at militants also killed civilians. American commanders say such deaths hurt their mission because they turn average Afghans against the government and international forces …
Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who took command of international forces in Afghanistan this month, has said his measure of effectiveness will be the “number of Afghans shielded from violence” — not the number of militants killed.
McChrystal will issue orders within days saying troops may attack insurgents hiding in Afghan houses if U.S. or NATO forces are in imminent danger, said U.S. military spokesman Rear Adm. Greg Smith.
“But if there is a compound they’re taking fire from and they can remove themselves from the area safely, without any undue danger to the forces, then that’s the option they should take,” Smith said. “Because in these compounds we know there are often civilians kept captive by the Taliban.”
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2009/06/23/changes-to-the-rules-of-engagement-for-afghanistan/
Is this a war or not? The civilians already hate us.
Obama’s ROE are similar to his reported attitude about the border. EVERYTHING has a political agenda for him. If we started wining in Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama would have no reason to cut and run. That is always what he had in mind and only changed to appease for a short while.
NO!
these are obumbles ROE - calibrated to protect to Taliban, not our troops = and the number of casualties have doubled - blood on this CICINO's hands.
A matter of SOP for our politically correct, head-in-the-sand, and a$$-in-the-wind Leaders.
I heard from a reliable source on the ground over there that when the reports and requests filtered up through the two, three, and four star generals, the four star boys refused to act on anything that might be a PC problem.
Thanks
I read that an enemy can be firing a weapon,
then lay it down by the side of the road and walk away,
and our soldiers are not allowed to shoot at him
cuz now he is not holding a weapon.
Fact or fiction ?
“This is worse than Vietnam!”
After JFK was killed and LBJ took over, the ROI’s before Nam, during Nam and after Nam, became worse.
The new pussy ROI’s were not just for Nam, but applied to our forces around the world. This set up incidents like the Pueblo and our monitoring planes being shot down without any fear of retribution from the commies killing our sailors, airmen and soldiers.
No, it does not make it right. But I think the problem goes much farther than who is president. I think the West in general has tied its own hands, and the muzzies are taking advantage of that fact. Too many in The west feel it is "better to lose a war than compromise our principles". They think taking the war to the muzzies, and waterboarding and torturing terrorists "makes us as bad as them".
Yes, things were somewhat better under W. We did waterboard KSM and get some useful intel. But we let Al Sadr slip away, and marines were tried for the "Haditha Massacre" and we still frisked old ladies and little girls at airports.
I think it is going to take something like the destruction of an entire city to wake up the West. I think the much-feared backlash against Islam is going to have to happen in order for them to get the ass-whipping they so richly deserve.
Sad to say, in this modern world of journalism, that Rolling Stone and National Inquirer are producing the hard-hitting work, not the paper of record, aka “the new york slimes”
The troops are not allowed to shoot an unarmed combatant even he was just previously armed,unless the particular soldier/Marine shooting at him sees him drop the weapon first hand.
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