Retired Army general: Lt. Col. Lakin has 'valid point'

World Net Daily ^ | April 23, 2010 | Chelsea Schilling

[Smokeyblue]

A retired Army general and national security policy expert says Lt. Col. Terry Lakin has "a valid point" and should use his "right to discovery" to force the Obama administration to produce proof of his natural-born citizenship status.

In an interview with Evil Conservative Radio, Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely said, "I think many in the military – and many out of the military – question the natural-birth status of Barack Obama. … I'm not convinced that he is [a natural-born citizen]."

Vallely, CEO of Stand Up America U.S., graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and was commissioned in the Army in 1961, serving 32 years.

He said he inspected his own long-form birth certificate, and it contains a doctor's name, date and location of birth.

"But he's never been able to produce that," he said of Obama. "His unwillingness to do it also concerns me. I think Lt. Col. Lakin has a valid point. … He refuses to produce a birth certificate that states the witnessing of the birth, the date and who is the doctor. We don't know why he won't come out with that."

[danamco]

When???

[Beckwith]

That’s Obama’s own website.

Maybe the Obots can explain this one.

Either Obama doesn’t know when he was born, or he was born in Hawaii before it acheived statehood?

[rxsid]

Only, Resolution 511 referenced the (repealed) Act of Naturalization of 1790 as being the source for their definition (i.e. TWO citizen parents), when they should have referenced Vattel as that definition. With Barry himself being a signatory, he too agrees that two citizen parentS are an important factor. How ironic. The point there, and with the rest, is that it's always been about two (2) citizen parents (and not being born under the jurisdiction of a foreign country).

It's interesting to note that I, in no way shape or form, have tried to discredit Blacktone's contributions to the founding of the country...yet, when it comes to Vattel's (clear) contributions, he is somehow "just" a theorist. As if, he were a nobody and did not influence in any way, the founders (just don't look at the strong parallels between the Vattel's ideals and the Declaration of Independence).

My post that you replied to was even prefaced with that. That it was about the term "Natural Born Citizen," only.

Clearly, the framers relied upon MANY sources to found our unique country. On where they got the definition for the term "Natural Born Citizen", it's clear they got it from Vattel, and not from trying to somehow manipulate a subject into a citizen and thereby making the definition for a subject, be the same for a citizen.

5 earlier SCOTUS cases restate the very same definition in their dicta, a founder restated the same definition in one of his dissertations and the father of the 14th Amendment restated the same definition.

A reference (as you suggest) is EXACTLY what is needed here, as there is no known legal precedent for a sitting POTUS, Commander in Chief of the armed forces and finger on the "button," being questioned about his being born a subject to the crown of her majesty the Queen of England.

By the way, Vattel was one of the most cited legal sources in the early years of the republic.

Cheers.

[danamco]

I’m sorry, but this is making freepers look foolish.

To whom???

[little jeremiah]

Some have gotten zotted. A couple of freepers are keepres of the 0bot troll list, quite a number of highly egregious ones got the boot.

Apparently a person has to be outrageous to get zotted. If you get on the Zot ping list you can get alerted to any zots. It’s actually quite cheering to be on that list, I got on not long ago. And not all bannings get on the list, some are quieter bannings. I’ve seen a fair number lately, not all 0bots of course.

;-)

[little jeremiah]

Butterdezillion is the mistress of everything that can be known so far about the COLB and the HI Dept of Health shennanigans.

Please check her blog and/or her comments on FR, you will be glad you did.

It is rather complex but she explains the details clearly, and proves without doubt that the COLB is a forgery. You just need to do a bit of reading. Butter posts a link to her blog just about on every comment, or most of them, and is probably on her profile page. Or you can just get on her page and read “in forum” comments she’s made. She’s worked heroically on this and knows more about 0bama’s COLB and what it means than just about anyone else.

[Mr Rogers]

“Whadda putz!”

What a loser!

You cannot point to a single congressman who agrees with your arguments. There isn’t a single court that has agreed with the birthers. Not one state has ruled Obama was ineligible - not even Utah. Not one state government has ruled Obama cannot run again since his father wasn’t a US citizen. The Supreme Court had a chance to weigh in, and declined.

The best you can do is Orly Taitz making a fool of herself in court, or a LTC who is about to have his butt handed to him after losing his career by listening to losers.

You can call me names, but you cannot win a legal case by calling names. At some point, you need something more than a birther dick-dance on the Internet...

Unless you advocate the violent overthrow of the government, you need to win somewhere. You need to convince a state, a court or Congress that you aren’t full of crap...and for 2 years, you’ve failed.

Of course, we all know that Rush, Malkin, Coulter and others just don’t have the courage to stand up for what they believe. We all know that posters like myself have pretended to be conservatives for 10-11 years just so we could emerge now.

Y’all ought to post on the Religion forum. You could make them Birther Caucus threads, and cheer each other on, and then puzzle over why you’ve lost again.

[bgill]

Just those under 18. They have to show both when they get their permit, at 16, and when it’s renewed at 17. Yeah, I know, it’s a money making scam to make them get another one at 17.

[rxsid]

"A COLB that looked very much like that is EXACTLY what I used to get my driver’s license. The COLB itself says, “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding” and cites the law that states that. On the bottom. Right there in your image.

I’m sorry, but this is making freepers look foolish"

Hilda, what you've seen is a COPY of a copy. Or, more specifically, a "pic" of a (alleged) copy, floating around the WWW.
Clearly, that is NOT "prima facie" evidence. The short form has never been substantiated or legitimized by 1) the state of HI; AND 2)in any court of law.

However, these two have "vouched" for it:

Jess Henig has an M.A. in English Literature.
Joe Miller has a Ph. D. in Political Philosophy.

Just who, is looking foolish here?

b.t.w Hilda, can you explain how a subject to the crown of her majesty the Queen of England could possibly be considered a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S. and thus eligible to be the Commander in Chief of the armed forces?

[JoeA]

Within the last year.

[butterdezillion]

Here’s the link to the article on my blog, Hilda. http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/red-flags-in-hawaii-2/

I’m sure we do appear stupid to people who don’t know the facts. Just like the people who said the global warming scientists were scamming us appeared stupid - until somebody revealed the e-mails where they bragged about doing exactly that.

Janice Okubo belittles us “vexatious requestors” every chance she gets, but the responses she was legally obligated to give have contradicted all her public bravado. Those who make much of her extra-legal comments want to just ignore the legal responses her job required her to make - ignoring also that she has said the law forbids her from telling us if Factcheck is a forgery. Her responses to other requests have forced her to reveal that it is, indeed, a forgery - as you will see on the blog.

Little Jeremiah, thanks for the kind words. I am admittedly a “vexatious” blog pimp. lol.

But the information is important, and no big megaphone seems to be willing to deal with these facts so I’m sort of forced to do it. (How’s that for a non-apologetic apology? I hope I’m not catching politicalese. lol)

[little jeremiah]

Butter, you are doing a major service for everyone in the US - and beyond - who wants the truth about 0bama revealed.

[ASA Vet]

A COLB that looked very much like that is EXACTLY what I used to get my driver’s license.

Does your COLB list a Dad who is not a US Citizen?
If so you can have your drivers license but not run for President.

[rxsid]

Regarding Vattel's influence on the founders...or rather, on their reliance upon his legal treatise, it appears that some additional information has been (re) discovered:

George Washington Consulted the Legal Treatise "Law of Nations" during his First Day in Office

I'll reiterate yet again so that the point doesn't get lost again (not necessarily by you), the founders relied upon MANY sources to guide them in the framing and governing of this new and unique country. Clearly, they relied heavily upon Vattel's interpretation of natural law.

[edge919]

A COLB that looked very much like that is EXACTLY what I used to get my driver’s license. The COLB itself says, “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding” and cites the law that states that. On the bottom. Right there in your image.

And do you know how many times in which Obama has presented his alleged COLB in any court proceeding?? I'll give you a hint. The answer starts with a zero and ends with a zero.

[patlin]

That clears that issue with McCain up. Still..when the Constitution was finally ratified, it did not change the system of laws that existed in the states that had their precedence in common law.

And that common law was NOT part of the US Constitution. Also, NOT ALL the states followed the same common law as shows in the citizenship laws of Virginia that was written by Thomas Jefferson:

A Bill Declaring Who Shall Be Deemed Citizens of This Commonwealth

May 1779

Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that all white persons born within the territory of this commonwealth and all who have resided therein two years next before the passing of this act, and all who shall hereafter migrate into the same; and shall before any court of record give satisfactory proof by their own oath or affirmation, that they intend to reside therein, and moreover shall give assurance of fidelity to the commonwealth; and all infants wheresoever born, whose father, if living, or otherwise, whose mother was, a citizen at the time of their birth, or who migrate hither, their father, if living, or otherwise their mother becoming a citizen, or who migrate hither without father or mother, shall be deemed citizens of this commonwealth, until they relinquish that character in manner as herein after expressed: And all others not being citizens of any the United States of America, shall be deemed aliens.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a4_2_1s4.html

Thus, jus soli, birth on soil = automatic citizenship was NOT the universal common law adopted by the colonists and especially the founders/framers. They knew of the evils of foreign influences and took every measure to guard against it.