Posted on 04/05/2010 3:13:26 PM PDT by wagglebee
It seems to me that some mortals want to apply the laws of logic to God, e.g. the Law of Identity or the Law of the Excluded Middle --- as if God, the Creator of such laws, is restricted by His own Creation.
Man is not the measure of God.
Shalom.
Thank you so very much for your encouragements, dearest sister in Christ!
I think it's worth noting that when it really mattered He CHOSE to abide by the exact laws that He set for us.
He DID NOT need to become fully Man through the Incarnation.
He DID NOT have to suffer and die on His Cross.
He DID NOT have to be Resurrected and Ascend into Heaven.
He could have saved mankind WITHOUT any of these things, He CHOSE not to.
He CHOSE to be fully Man and sacrifice Himself out of His love for us.
Praise God!!!
Indeed and so true, dearest sister in Christ. And it's even worse than that — some use a sort of mindless "cookie-cutter logic," for example: "God cannot be tempted by evil, but Jesus Christ was; therefore, Jesus Christ is not God."
It seems to me to apply logic and the laws of nature to God — i.e., to the Source whereby they came into existence — is to falsify the divine character from the get-go. Ineluctably, such a maneuver "makes man the measure" of God.
There is no way for man to "measure" the I Am That I Am — pure self-sufficient eternal Being. It seems to me we humans cannot even conceptualize such a thing, let alone make it subject to the ordinary rules we understand from our purely human experience.
Thank you ever so much for your most perceptive observation, dearest sister in Christ!
May I add the words on Trinity of the blessed Thomas a Kempis to our reflection. See the third paragraph, especially.
IMITATING CHRIST AND DESPISING ALL VANITIES ON EARTH
HE WHO follows Me, walks not in darkness,” says the Lord.[1] By these words of Christ we are advised to imitate His life and habits, if we wish to be truly enlightened and free from all blindness of heart. Let our chief effort, therefore, be to study the life of Jesus Christ.
The teaching of Christ is more excellent than all the advice of the saints, and he who has His spirit will find in it a hidden manna. Now, there are many who hear the Gospel often but care little for it because they have not the spirit of Christ. Yet whoever wishes to understand fully the words of Christ must try to pattern his whole life on that of Christ.
What good does it do to speak learnedly about the Trinity if, lacking humility, you displease the Trinity? Indeed it is not learning that makes a man holy and just, but a virtuous life makes him pleasing to God. I would rather feel contrition than know how to define it. For what would it profit us to know the whole Bible by heart and the principles of all the philosophers if we live without grace and the love of God? Vanity of vanities and all is vanity, except to love God and serve Him alone.
This is the greatest wisdom — to seek the kingdom of heaven through contempt of the world. It is vanity, therefore, to seek and trust in riches that perish. It is vanity also to court honor and to be puffed up with pride. It is vanity to follow the lusts of the body and to desire things for which severe punishment later must come. It is vanity to wish for long life and to care little about a well-spent life. It is vanity to be concerned with the present only and not to make provision for things to come. It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides.
Often recall the proverb: “The eye is not satisfied with seeing nor the ear filled with hearing.”[2] Try, moreover, to turn your heart from the love of things visible and bring yourself to things invisible. For they who follow their own evil passions stain their consciences and lose the grace of God.
Thank you ever so much, dear brother in Christ, for these illuminating passages from Thomas a Kempis. In the final analysis, Christianity is not so much about what we know, but is manifestly about how we live; not about what we think, but about what we do.
And that basically boils down to: Do we follow Christ, or not?
Thank you ever so much for writing!
God did not NEED to sacrifice His Son; He did so to reveal His love. He did not NEED to fulfill prophecy; He did so to prove His trustworthiness. He did not NEED to Incarnate and live perfectly under His own rules; He did so to demonstrate His righteousness. Therefore, we who know the Messiah Yeshua are no fools to love Him, trust in Him, and submit to His judgment.
Shalom.
Amazingly, beautifully said, Buggman — this, and what follows! Thank you oh so very much!
I am going to ignore your whole post and ask you again, if you do not accept that life begins at conception what, in God’s name, is your rationale for opposing abortion.
Please be specific.
Abortions are sad and traumatic, but there are far worse things than abortion. Blaming 10YO girls for not wanting to carry a rapists baby, Daddy’s baby/ your own half-sister or half-brother is one of them. I find that offensive and call parents who do that “murdering their own child for being inconvenient” and being a victim of rape. I’m sure you have heard the statistics on that. If not, there’s always Google.
I condemn the mothers who kill their own offspring through abortion. I didn't say I didn't have any compassion for them. I didn't say I wanted them charged as murders. I just can't see any legal justification for their actions. That being said the most severe punishment for their crimes will come when they meet their Maker.
And your tired examples of 7 year old girls impregnated by their uncles won't gain trackion with anyone on this website. I am on record as saying the law should stipulate in such cases, but it's actually irrelevant. Rape and incest represent statistically insignificant numbers of abortions. People who approve of abortion like bringing them up because they get a lot of play, but virtually all women who get abortion are healthy and just don't want the hassle of pregnancy.
The Bible is clear that the life of the flesh is in the blood.
There is no blood flowing at conception.
What basis do you use for presuming life at conception? The Bible?
How do you intend to convince people who do not have your same religious beliefs? Are you in favor of passing laws to rule other people based on your religious beliefs?
If so, where does that stop?
How does that differ from others wanting laws based on their religious views?
Do I need a reason to oppose abortion in order to make you happy?
But if I go around using the Bible for a reason for doing something it might be nice if the Bible actually said what I claimed it did.
“Rape and incest represent statistically insignificant numbers of abortions. People who approve of abortion like bringing them up because they get a lot of play, but virtually all women who get abortion are healthy and just don’t want the hassle of pregnancy.”
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I agree, the exception is rare but that is my one time I am saying an exception is warranted. FYI, I was the only non-Catholic who refused to do abortions but I will say, there are exceptions. IMHO Thanks for your response.
Exactly.. Whose to say.. Who can even know?..
Whether God has ONE or 128 Spirits is a mute point, I think..
What is..... Is.. and What ain't........ Ain't..
How can a temporal entity(man) de-construct GOD...
To study classify and bag GOD.. for christs sake..
Who are these devine scientists that know God like they are his shrink?..
Must be some that invented a small God.. and display him/it like an idol..
-OR- some that want to be believe God is an interesting myth.. (for the rubes)..
i.e. like Joseph Campbell..
I find solace in a God that can raise my horizons...
And studies ME and not me him...
There is no way for man to "measure" the I Am That I Am — pure self-sufficient eternal Being. It seems to me we humans cannot even conceptualize such a thing, let alone make it subject to the ordinary rules we understand from our purely human experience.
Thank you so very much for that beautiful essay, dear brother in Christ!
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