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Would You Vote For An Atheist For President, If You Agreed With His Policies?
pinochet

Posted on 03/27/2010 7:04:16 AM PDT by pinochet

Last year, I met with a former congressional aide, who said that there were several closeted atheists in Congress. To run for public office in America, it is almost a requirement that people publicly proclaim their religious affiliation, irrespective of whether they believe or not. Would you vote for a self-proclaimed atheist?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: atheism; atheist; atheists; faith; policies; president; vanity
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To: tiredoflaundry

“I would assume an atheist believes these rights come from man & government.”

See, that’s the problem. You should not “assume.”

Your assumption is wrong. Please see my previous post:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2481086/posts?page=160#160

Hank


161 posted on 03/27/2010 10:24:28 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief

I would happily vote for a Jew or a Christian as long as they are conservative. I draw the line on anyone that believes in nothing or denys God because they are typically statist. The only exception I am aware of is an Ayne Ran objectivist.


162 posted on 03/27/2010 12:17:20 PM PDT by Breto (never accept the premise)
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To: Breto

“The only exception I am aware of is an Ayne Ran objectivist.”

Then I’m another. I’m a long-time student of Rand, but do not call myself an Objectivist, but am fiercely anti-statist and anti-collectivist, and have written extensively defending Christians, though am not a theist myself.

http://192.168.0.5/home/backup/iindv/articles_stand/objectivism/three_books.php

One reason I do not call myself an Objectivist, in addition to some difference I have with Rand over epistemological and ontological issues, those who call themselves Objectivists today are much more hedonistic and collectivist (turning Objectivism into a “movement” which Rand despised).

Here’s a late article. Short.

http://192.168.0.5/home/backup/atnmst/jrnl_ii.php?art=84

I do not accept the evolutionary hypothesis either, another assumption almost always made about those who do not believe in a God. And I certainly have no objection if other people believe in God, but certainly object to anyone attempting to use government to force their ideas on others.

Hank


163 posted on 03/27/2010 12:43:08 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: ThomasSawyer

I personally laugh at the term, born again, and it is used as a term by people who identify themselves as true believers.

The other poster described it as scraping the bottom of the barrel in considering an atheist for office. And I can rightly point to believers who screwed the pooch while holding office.


164 posted on 03/27/2010 12:48:25 PM PDT by misterrob (Have you tea bagged a liberal today?)
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To: jimhawk

Agreed.


165 posted on 03/27/2010 12:49:32 PM PDT by misterrob (Have you tea bagged a liberal today?)
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To: pinochet

The question is moot. The country has already done it, all of the Wrights and Pflegers notwithstanding.


166 posted on 03/27/2010 1:12:06 PM PDT by DPMD (~)
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To: Hank Kerchief

There’s no getting around what’s clearly written in the Declaration of Independence. Unless you acknowledge that our rights descend from a power greater than man or government, you accept that they are graned by one of those entities, and subject to being revoked by the same. They are either unalienable (as our founders believed) or transient and subject to change. They have to be one or the other, and if they transcend mankind and government, they have to derive from a source more permanent than either.


167 posted on 03/27/2010 1:21:28 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack

“They are either unalienable (as our founders believed) or transient and subject to change.”

I know that what you call rights, the principles behind that concept, are eternal and absolute.

If anything, including whatever your notion of rights is, is merely dictated or granted by some being, whatever that being is, they are not absolute, but contingent on the whim of whatever being made the declaration.

If they are absolute, it does not matter whether God grants them or not, they are eternally true. If they are not eternally true, there is nothing to prevent God from revoking them.

Hank


168 posted on 03/27/2010 1:38:43 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
Well then, I'll look to God for my rights, and you can look to government.

I suspect you'll be disappointed long before I am.

169 posted on 03/27/2010 1:40:53 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
"Politics is not the same as religion. Someone with another religion can have the same politics as you. Someone with NO religion can have the same politics as you. Someone with a different God can have the same politics as you. Without saying what my religion is (if any - :P), I am just as conservative as you, if not more so. Don't be so judgmental.

My political views are influenced by the things I believe in including God-Given freedoms. If one believes there is no God and believes that rights are a concept created by man and dispensed by man, then it makes it that much easier for a man to deny them. So no, an atheist cannot have the same political views across the board as I.

As for me not being "so judgmental" as you put it: I would tend too call it discernment. At the same time, I'm not telling you that you're not allowed to vote for an atheist. Speaking of being judgmental, how is it you know how conservative I am relative to yourself? Are we aquainted?
170 posted on 03/27/2010 2:26:28 PM PDT by ThomasSawyer (Democratic Underground: Proof that anyone can figure out how to use a computer.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

“Well then, I’ll look to God for my rights, and you can look to government.”

I know it is very difficult for you, but I do not look to anyone else for my rights, God, Government, or man. Reality is the source of all truth, and rights do not depend on the grants or gifts of anyone. The government has taken away almost all freedoms from Americans, what is your God doing to restore them?

Hank


171 posted on 03/27/2010 2:41:10 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief

It’s not up to God to restore them. Like all His gifts, we are free to abuse and neglect our rights or embrace them in all their glory. I suspect one reason they are being so easily trampled today is precisely because people fail to, or refuse to recognize their source...or “...Divine Providence...” to once again quote the Declaration of Independence.


172 posted on 03/27/2010 2:49:21 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: misterrob
"I personally laugh at the term, born again, and it is used as a term by people who identify themselves as true believers."

Mockery of those of us who call ourselves born again by those such as yourself only fulfills God's word and reflects poorly on you. Besides, you would probably be surprised at the number folks that are part of the grassroots efforts that help get Republicans elected who consider themselves born again. Alienate them and see how far the GOP gets.

"The other poster described it as scraping the bottom of the barrel in considering an atheist for office. And I can rightly point to believers who screwed the pooch while holding office."

There are those of us who realize that we are imperfect and need God's grace available through his son Jesus Christ and those that don't. Many of the latter set themselves up as the ultimate judge. When it comes to selecting someone to lead our republic, I will take the former over the latter every time.
173 posted on 03/27/2010 3:19:15 PM PDT by ThomasSawyer (Democratic Underground: Proof that anyone can figure out how to use a computer.)
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To: pinochet
Would you vote for a self-proclaimed atheist?

Probably not, as almost all atheists I have met in real life and on here have a grudge against religion, particularly Christianity (exclusively?).

Perhaps an agnostic, but not an atheist.

174 posted on 03/27/2010 3:25:58 PM PDT by Hacksaw (Trees aren't our "friends")
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To: tom h

Have you read her book “Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal”?


175 posted on 03/27/2010 4:50:33 PM PDT by RWB Patriot ("Need has never produced anything. It has only been an excuse to steal from those with ablity.")
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To: Notary Sojac

I for one, and most others, would never make such a categorical statement. I would vote for a conservative Jew (if one such individual still exists in the USA). But I want to vote for men and women whose morality I trust. Someone who believes that no higher power exists has suspect morality to me.


176 posted on 03/27/2010 5:19:41 PM PDT by tom h
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To: RWB Patriot

No. I read Atlas Shrugged for the first time last year during the first few months after Obama was elected.


177 posted on 03/27/2010 5:20:19 PM PDT by tom h
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To: tom h

Her book on Capitalism is a bit more revealing about Ayn Rand herself and includes a chapter on the rights of man and the role of government.


178 posted on 03/27/2010 6:38:36 PM PDT by RWB Patriot ("Need has never produced anything. It has only been an excuse to steal from those with ablity.")
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To: Joe 6-pack

Joe, first off, please don’t throw accusations at someone who happens to hold a view different than yours. It doesn’t do the rest of us any good to be seen that way.

Second, read Ayn Rand’s “The Rights of Man” to get an idea of what Hank is talking about. Coming from someone who doesn’t fully subscribe to Ayn Rand’s views, she does make some good points on the subject of individual rights.


179 posted on 03/27/2010 6:51:33 PM PDT by RWB Patriot ("Need has never produced anything. It has only been an excuse to steal from those with ablity.")
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To: RWB Patriot
"Joe, first off, please don’t throw accusations at someone who happens to hold a view different than yours. It doesn’t do the rest of us any good to be seen that way."

What accusation is that? The Declaration of Independence makes it very, very clear where the signatories of that document believed our rights derive from. They may have been right or wrong, but that's what they believed, and had they not, they would not have pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor.

You may or may not agree with them, but again, that is what they believed and that is the premise upon which they declared this an independant nation.

Neither of us is going to resolve whether or not God exists, and I don't begrudge someone their personal beliefs; however, to dispute what the Declaration of Independence declares on the part of its signatories and to say that it doesn't say what it clearly says is at best disingenuous.

180 posted on 03/27/2010 6:58:21 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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