Banished! City forbids Bible studies in homes.

Worldnet Daily ^ | 3/13/10 | Bob Unruh

[stars & stripes forever]

The city of Gilbert, Ariz., has ordered a group of seven adults to stop gathering for Bible studies in a private home because such meetings are forbidden by the city's zoning codes. The issue was brought to a head when city officials wrote a letter to a pastor and his wife informing them they had 10 days to quit having the meetings in their private home. . .

[wtc911]

that is not to say that all bible studies of any size, duration and frequency are allowed in private homes zoned residential without restriction.

________________________________________

Are you kidding? You favor restrictions on religeous activity in private homes? And you are part of a group that could impose such restrictions? wow.

[stephenjohnbanker]

“Maybe a potluck dinner for a party of two is acceptable under their “land development codes”. “

As a former land developer, I can tell you that this code is illegal.

[TexasFreeper2009]

A church is a business in essence. At some size (not the one mentioned) this would stop being a bible study and would become a church, you can argue over what size that is but you can't say ANY size bible study is allowed period at any time and any frequency they wish.

I already said I have no problem with THIS particular incident. I was arguing for the need for some type of regulation of what types of activities can be held and what can't.

I purposely used extreme examples to make the point that of course what people are allowed to do on their own private property can and should be regulated.

[Popman]

All your examples are completely bogus.

Those examples are the reason for residential zoning laws.

Clearly this ordinance is a double standard. If a Boy Scout or Monday Night Football can have a weekly event and meet in a house certainly a invited guests can meet for worship.

Private property rights are exactly that, for use on your private property. A homeless shelter, truck stop, outdoor bazaar, toxic waste disposal site, sex club fall under "public" property use where the "public" need access.

[Rebelbase]

Do you really want to be restricted from having more than seven people in your house at one time?

[Mr Rogers]

A longer letter explaining the city’s position. Again, I think its ban will be found to be way too wide, since it does literally ban bible studies in a residential home.

http://www.telladf.org/UserDocs/OATCGilbertInterpretation.pdf

[Theodore R.]

Very few people bother to vote in local elections. I wonder if that is the case in Gilbert, AZ, and is this a McPain stronghold?

[Mr Rogers]

Ping to post 106, giving the city’s reasons. I’d appreciate your thoughts.

[bcsco]

We’re a combination farming & quasi industrial community. Our city council has done well getting business to come to our city. But our park board has this idea that we’re comparable to much larger communities in toward Chicago. They want to build a large family recreation center costing millions of dollars, when we already have one that doesn’t get the use.

Public opinion is divided on the issue, but they’re squirreling millions away through borrowing because a referendum lost. That’s how they plan to pay for it.

[TexasFreeper2009]

do you live in a neighborhood? or out in the country?

Because if you lived in a neighborhood you would understand the need to be considerate of the “rights” of everyone in a neighborhood.

Sure, there is a “right” to free speech... but does that mean that your next door neighbor can get on a megaphone at 2am each night and sing Britney Spears songs all night?

Sure, there is a “right” to assemble... but does that mean that your next door neighbor can have a party for 500 of his closest friends each night till 5am?

All “rights” have restrictions placed on them to protect the rights of others.

[xzins]

REALLY want your neighbor running a church or anything else very regular out of his house filling up the street with cars ect?

Freedom, Tex, means they can do that. Or have an amway meeting, or a boy scout meeting, or a bridge club, or a zillion other associations that require regular get-togethers.

It is wrong to pick out only religion for sanction, but this is deeper even than that.

It is wrong for government to tell us with whom and how we can associate. I have a man in my church who honestly is from a family that had 24 children. When they get together with kids and grandkids, it's a small town that moves in.

Are we going to tell them they can't get together 'cause their family was just too darn large?

Or are we going to uphold free association and the right "peacably to assemble".

[hope]

Ya know...I lived there for 15 years, Mesa Az. also. It would be nothing coming home at 7 p.m. and have the street lined with cars from my Mormon neighbors...In fact at least once a month I would not be able to pull out of my drive way...Most of the politicos in Gilbert and Mesa, Az are Mormon. It’s just a way of life here...Good people...Just not as tolerant to other religions as most would like.

[TexasFreeper2009]

I don't really think the number of people is the issue here really, it is probably more the frequency and duration.

Many small businesses would rarely have more than a couple of customers inside of them at any one time, but no business would be allowed to be run out of a private home zoned residential.

There is a point (a debatable point) at which a “bible study” would become a church... and churches are not allowed to be built in areas zoned residential.

[healy61]

And what about signs for “ Sarah’s graduation party” “Bill’s Superduper Bratwurst cookout?” Our neighbors have a baptismal service in their backyard pool a couple times each summer. It is followed by hymns and singing, and, of course, a potluck. Good fences make good neighbors. I can not imagine anyone complaining about it.

[Evil Slayer]

I do believe we are in the mist of a war being waged between good and evil in Heaven right now. It has been prophesied in the Bible that these things will come to past in the end times and I believe you and I are living in those last days.

For more go to my profile page at click

[Pablo64]

"ONLY religious gatherings are outlawed."

Start the discrimination lawsuit now.

[PalmettoMason]

Sometimes I think even politically aware folks are just not all that aware of how bad it is in this supposedly free country. If the authorities want to hassle, harass, fine, stifle, incarcerate or DESTROY you, they will find a legal way.

"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against- then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted- and you create a nation of law breakers- and then you cash in on the guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

That is from Atlas Shrugged, page 436.

Just sayin'...

[stars & stripes forever]

The actual letter

Relgious assembly on private property. Chilling isn't it. . . the People's Republic of America.

[TexasFreeper2009]

I completely agree with you, and in this particular instance I agree that the city is wrong.

What I am debating is the need for zoning laws to be enforced with all parties rights being considered. There is a point (a debatable point) at which a bible study could morph into a church. If that area is not zoned for a church,h then a church shouldn't be allowed.

[wtc911]

We are speaking specifically about the right to hold religeous meetings in your own private residence. there should be no restrictions on that. If you think there should then you are perhaps on the wrong forum.