Gen. Patrick R. Cleburne—Stonewall Jackson of the West

Canda Free Press ^ | March 7, 2010 | Calvin E. Johnson, Jr.

[BigReb555]

Do you remember the 1961 weekly television series, entitled “The Americans?”

[Yorlik803]

What the country won dont match what the country lost in that war.
We saw slaugher on a scale unkown before that war. We also saw the trampling of civil rights under Lincoln. The case that Obama could use the same excuses today can be made.
Big Government equals oppression. I used to hate the south, but know I see thier point. It wasnt really about slavery, but it was about states right. Lincoln was ham handed, using the “save the union” response to suspend basic rights.
And the troubling thing is that history tends to repeat itself.

[jdege]

I make no arguments that Lincoln didn’t seriously overstep his authority, once the war started, or that his administration saw a growth of federal power that was anything but benign.

But the war was fought because there was a radical faction in the South that was bound and determined to spread slavery by any means possible. Lincoln wasn’t responsible for Bloody Kansas, his election was a response to it.

[ringgold]

I live about a mile from Ringgold Gap. They recently erected a statue of Cleburne at the Battle of Ringgold Gap markers. It has been interesting learning of the history of the area since moving here.

[piroque]

Patrick Ronayne Cleburne "Every man should endeavor to understand the meaning of subjugation before it is too late... It means the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern schoolteachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, and our maimed veterans as fit objects for derision... It is said slavery is all we are fighting for, and if we give it up we give up all. Even if this were true, which we deny, slavery is not all our enemies are fighting for. It is merely the pretense to establish sectional superiority and a more centralized form of government, and to deprive us of our rights and liberties." --- Maj. General Patrick R. Cleburne, CSA, January 1864, writing on what would happen if the Confederacy were to be defeated. "If this cause, that is dear to my heart, is doomed to fail, I pray heaven may let me fall with it, while my face is toward the enemy and my arm battling for that which I know is right." --- Major General Patrick R. Cleburne before his fatal wound at the battle of Franklin, Tennesse

[nuke rocketeer]

It’s even funnier that two adjacent counties in Texas have both me’s names - Hood County, and Cleburne in Johnson County.

[Gene Eric]

>> “It is merely the pretense to establish sectional superiority and a more centralized form of government, and to deprive us of our rights and liberties.” -— Maj. General Patrick R. Cleburne, CSA, January 1864

Interesting, notwithstanding the albatross of slavery.

[Kartographer]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054515/

[Charlemagne on the Fox]

Thanks!

[Idabilly]

“For those who think that Lincoln was the aggressor”

Lincoln and the ‘War Governors’ did seek a blood bath!

Rustbucket, FR Lincoln's war historian provided this great information! Kudos to him

April 6, 1861

Governors of Indiana, Ohio, Maine, and Pennsylvania confer with President about military status of militia. Baltimore Sun, 9 April 1861 http://www.thelincolnlog.org/view/1861/4/6

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=2&res=9900EFD61030E134BC4051DFB266838A679FDE&oref=slogin

Lincoln was preparing his troops ( link above )

Sir: — We have the honor to transmit to you a copy of the full powers from the Convention of the people of South Carolina, under which we are “authorized and empowered to treat with the Government of the United States for the delivery of the forts, magazines, light-houses, and other real estate with their appurtenances, within the limits of South Carolina, and also for an apportionment for the public debt and for a division of all the property held by the Government of the United States, of which South Carolina was recently a member, and generally to negotiate as to all other measures proper to be made and adopted in the existing relation of the parties, and for the continuance of peace and amity between this Commonwealth and the Government at Washington.”

Looks like your incorrect.

[cowboyway]

If South Carolina had not attacked Fort Sumter, there would have been no war. Lincoln may have been bound and determined to "preserve the Union", but Congress had no such determination.

Have another glass.

[cowboyway]

For those who think that Lincoln was the aggressor, I point you to his first inaugural:

I guess you believe everything that your boy Obama says, also.

Keep drinking it, yank.

[Yorlik803]

I was under the impression that slavery was dying out. I may be wrong on that.

[jdege]

Slavery was dying out, around the world. By 1861, Brazil was the only slave nation left, except for the US. Hence the determination by the pro-slavery forces in the South to extend slavery on every front possible. (And Brazil ended slavery in 1870.)

The Civil War wasn’t about slavery, it was about the North’s refusal to allow the South to extend slavery.

[stainlessbanner]

Dixieping

[rustbucket]

For those who think that Lincoln was the aggressor, I point you to his first inaugural

If Lincoln was a man of peace, why did he poke half the country in the eye with that inaugural. See how his speech was interpreted at the time: Lincoln's First Inaugural

As the New York Day Book newspaper put it:

In other words, though you do not recognize me as President, I shall not molest you if you will pay taxes for the support of my government. We must have your money, that we cannot bring ourselves to decline, and if you do not let us have it peacefully, why, we shall be compelled to take it from you by force; in which case you, not we, will be the aggressors. This means coercion and civil war and nothing else.

War was Lincoln's intention.

[proudofthesouth]

WOW! This man clearly saw our future. I have a new hero.

[wardaddy]

bttt

[jdege]

Lincoln’s intentions would have had no relevance, had the radicals in South Carolina not attacked Union troops.

[Idabilly]

“Lincoln’s intentions would have had no relevance, had the radicals in South Carolina not attacked Union troops.”

I'm hearing School bells. Rustbucket,is a walking history book.

Your arguing with your better! Good luck you’ll need it

[Non-Sequitur]

Congressman Abraham Lincoln, 1847, from speech on floor of U.S. House of Rep.

And the South did rise up and try to shake off their existing government. They just botched the job.