Your Thoughts on Treason, Please.

Vanity | 1/27/10 | dagogo redux

[dagogo redux]

I am interested in the opinions of the deeper, more serious thinkers and scholars here concerning a matter of great concern to our nation. The questions I pose grew out of several Freeper responses to a Trevor Louden New Zeal BlogSpot posting I made recently.

For a long time now there has been no question in my mind about the intent of the current administration and many in the Congress - that intent being to finalize the transformation of our constitutional republic into a Communist/Socialist/Progressive/Marxist state. I reject any suggestion that Obama and his ilk are merely clueless in their destruction of our institutions and society - what is happening is clearly all planned and purposeful. If you still give them the benefit of the doubt in this regard, then you reject the premise on which my questions are based, and this thread is perhaps not for you.

I seek opinions regarding these simple questions:

1. Is Obama (or others in his circle) committing treason, either by the narrow Constitutional definition found in Article III, or by broader, dictionary definitions?

2. If so, which general areas or which specific acts constitute that treason?

3. If not, what would he have to do, or which line in the “fundamental transformation” he is aiming at would he have to cross before you would consider it treason?

4. Could he succeed in his “fundamental transformation” all the way to a Communist dictatorship, using the powers vested in him by his electoral win, and never commit treason?

5. If you believe he is committing treason, or coming close, how would explain the universal lack of the use of that word by supposed conservatives in the media and those in the supposed opposition party?

I look forward to your thoughtful replies.

[John.Galt2012]

You forgot bowing to foreign kings.

[Outlaw Woman]

WEBSTERS

Main Entry: trea·son

Etymology: Middle English tresoun, from Anglo-French

traisun, from Latin tradition-, traditio act of handing

over, from tradere to hand over, betray — more at traitor

Date: 13th century

1 : the betrayal of a trust : treachery

2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow

the government of the state to which the offender owes

allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign

or the sovereign's family _________________________________________________________

I think, after reviewing the 'official' meaning as defined by Webster, we can safely say that the threshold of treason was crossed 11-4-2008. When you aid and comfort the enemy and spurn your allies, treason has been committed. Don't know how deep this is and there isn't enough space to go into individual examples, but we've witnessed the absolute dismantling of protocol and a complete rejection of the Constitution and it's authority that Treason HAS and continues to occur.

[Oldpuppymax]

Face it...the MSM, FOX included, is NOT a pro-US group. And accusations of treason would be, well, sort of “unenlightened”. You know, the old everything is a gray area, there is no black and white. Only the little people, those incapable of truly “deep, sophisticated” thought would even consider using words like traitor or treason. And as no one in our media multiplex wants to be thought of as unsophisticated. I mean, you know, like after all, the US isn’t the GREATEST place anyhow, right??!! So the “upper classes” will just move on to something REALLY important...like the whales.

[The Big Boo]

Since Obummer is not a Natural Born American, not having two citizen parents, and does not meet the Constitutional eligibility for President, he as well as all others who support him in his Presidency have committed treason. This includes the general officers who take an oath to uphold the Constitution. It would also include all members of Congress at the time of his certification.

I remind the birthers that the Heller decision took over 100 years for resolution on the 2nd Amendment, the recent Corporate Political Free Speech decision, 68 years. Since the NBC clause has not been directly addressed by the SCOTUS in regards to Presidential eligibility, the issue will remain in contention for some time, possibly a long time.

The Republic is awash in traitors.

The Big Boo

[Outlaw Woman]

I’m not going to lighten up and as far as what you perceive as ‘levity’ don’t go on the thread. I speak from experience on that one btw. Who the hell are you? This thread was simply asking for ‘thoughtful’ remarks and you make it sound like noone on this sight is capable of a thoughtful process....so you are obviously clueless. The only reason this thread may not get the ‘traffic’ is because it is a vanity...but it’s not due to the fact that people on here are clueless.

YOU lighten up or move on.

[caver]

“I am interested in the opinions of the deeper, more serious thinkers and scholars here”

I guess that leaves me out.

[mdk1960]

I am in full agreement and you have excellently addressed the question. Bravo!

[bvw]

The Saudi King and the Japanese Prime Minster are not enemies. But still, why did Obama bow?

Would the massive ego Obama bow to anyone? No!

Why then did he bow to King and Minister? Because as in his role as ‘President, United States of America’ he was making ALL OF AMERICA bow before others — in that sense, you are right — it was treasonous act!

[Cboldt]

-- There's no doubt, by strict definition, that Obama has committed treason. --

By strict definition, treason is what the government charges its citizens with. That is true no matter how transformed a government becomes. A citizen cannot charge the government with treason (by strict definition).

Converting (and I mean that in the most extreme sense, as in "subverting" or "co-opting" or "in form only") the political structure via legislation, court rulings and popular elections is not treason - the country is still identified and operated by the same institutions.

The Declaration of Independence asserts that the people have a moral right (and duty) to alter or abolish a government that they (the people) do not support with "consent."

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

[hoagy62]

Unfortunately, we are stuck with this fascist narcissist until he's voted out of office in 2012.

Provided, of course, that the narcissist in question allows that vote to take place. All they need is for one manufactured "national emergency", no matter what that may entail, and he could suspend elections "for the duration"...which, of course, would never end.

At that point, the afore-mentioned civil war would launch and we (the Free People of the United States) would attempt to overthrow the usurping powers that would try to enslave us.

Maybe.

Right now, I am in serious doubt that we even could overthrow a tyrannical government. There are many, MANY gun owners out there, and we ASSUME that if it comes to a fight, they'd pour out of the woodwork to defend our country. However, given the utter laziness of the average American, and also given that many don't even care enough to go out and VOTE (much less fend off a takeover of the country), I wonder how many of our fellow Americans we really can count on to do what needs to be done.

Not only that...of those who are inclined to WANT to fight for what they believe, I also believe (based on comments seen here and elsewhere) that a good number of those people will either disappear to any number of "bug-out" hideaways, or hole themselves up in their own homes or properties with an "I'll wait until this all shakes out" attitude.

I just have a feeling that too many Americans have an "as-long-as-I-have-mine-you-can-go-screw-yourselves" attitude and will NOT rise up unless what they (materially) have is threatened to be taken away from them. Many take the intangibles of our country (freedom & liberty) for granted until it dawns on them that the intangibles are the reason they even HAVE the tangibles...all that 'stuff'...but by then it's too late.

I know this was a thread about treason, but I think what I've said fits in this way: too many Americans don't care about whether someone is a traitor, and that is only because we are too fixated on ourselves and what we have. Once that is threatened to be taken away, then people MIGHT wake up and understand what's at stake.

Given the way things are out there...I sadly doubt that will happen.

[Missouri gal]

When Zero had 65% popularity, it would have been farcical to charge treason, despite his treasonaous acts from the beginning. When his popularity falls below sea level, there is a real chance that charges could be made to stick, and it is already apparent that even his own party will turn against him. I really would not be surprised if a major crisis, if it were blamed on him, would force his resignation. However, as previous posts here already said, elections provide the cheapest, most direct route to removing the traitor and his minions. The bigger problem is that, as with the Clinton admin, which also committed countless treasonous acts, it is easy for this to happen all over again the moment the whims of the badly educated voters turn in a new direction. We would help ourselves enormously to institute some protections against the NEXT usurper: 1) insist that ALL candidates for federal office (including executive appointees) must pass FBI security background checks, including PROOF of citizenship (all citizens have standing to challenge), employment and education, all addresses since age 18, etc.; 2) Limits on campaign contributions and the uses of unspent monies; 3) limits on executive authority more clearly spelled out in an amendment to the Constitution; 4) balanced budget amendment; and 5) term limits.

[himno hero]

The Saudi King and the Japanese Prime Minster are not enemies. But still, why did Obama bow?

One is a superior to the Muslim Barrack and he bowed out of Islamic honesty ...full awareness, intent, full heart to his faith and to his superior.

Bow number two? A guise to mask bow number one. To him not relevant other than as a mask for America to see and be confused about. And look, the wafflers still discuss it.

[indyhome11]

I am not a scholar and only a part time deep thinker.
However, I personally think O and his administration are guilty of treason. Unfortunately, even if he was found guilty of acts of treason it would mean no more than Clinton being impeached by the house in 1998, then the senate pimping the nation at a 50-50 vote on the impeachment in early 1999. The status quo continued. Jesus wept. And I wondered at the “head in the sand” attitude of my fellow citizens.

[ThePatriotsFlag]

I gave your thread some thought, what I didn't "understand" was the Progressive movement that seems to be the foundation for this. So off to the archives, and I learned more than I wanted to know. I posted the relevant links I found at The Patriot's Flag-Progressive FAQs Post and hopefully, someone who "wasn't up on it" (like I wasn't) can do some searching and reading and know what I now know. ... and now I may not sleep tonight! Your premise has deep roots! I'll keep adding to the information as people find it. But I think, after some long reading hours that you are correct.

[TalBlack]

“There are many, MANY gun owners out there, and we ASSUME that if it comes to a fight, they’d pour out of the woodwork to defend our country.”

I assume no such thing. History shows that men of conviction and courage are few and far between. In our own Revolution only about one third of the people were behind it. God knows how few actually fought. Still George was sent packing and a Nation was born. Men with guns MUST be dealt with. Don’t downplay how much resources it takes to deal with them...like George did.

[RoadTest]

If he got his way, he’d probably throw in Sharia law just for good measure.

[Erasmus]

“Treason doth never prosper; what’s the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”

—Sir John Harrington, 1561-1612

[MRBIGMUTTS]

35 million veterans who took an oath upon entering the military stating “To protect the US against all enemies, both foreign and domestic”. I was not released from that oath upon leaving the military and I know of no other veteran that was released either.

Obama is both! He is a foreigner with domestic ties. He is hurting us, not helping us. He saves the big companies while screwing the little ones, who make up 95% of companies in the US. Small business are correct in not hiring more people because its the only way to stop this clown from doing even more harm to us. The future is not brighter for our children, its very dark, they will have to work 2-3 or more jobs(or worse,fight another war) just to pay taxes and interest on all of the debt we have gained in a year.

Given what has happened in the first year of this imcompetent president, I cannot see him making it until the end. Not that he will get shot by an assassin, but due to his inability to lead this country. IMHO, we the people will soon be calling for him to be removed from office, but by the book and following the proper law in doing so. If that fails, then I think many citizens will want to do something of a stronger nature without regard to the ramifications of their actions.

You can already see we are having a effect when they(DEMS) start fighting amongst themselves and suddenly the important agenda is changed to appease more people or to put it another way, buy more votes. They are running scared right now after losing 3 battles on the state level. IMHO, I feel we will see even more DEMS lose their seats in the fall elections and all losses will be blamed on Obama’s poor performance and he will blame all of this on Bush until the day he is removed from office.

This time around the DEMS were like a spoiled child that was given all of their candy at Halloween to eat at the same time. We all knew it would make them sick, it now has made them sick. Now the rest of us are tired of cleaning the messes up. The sad part is now we have to put with the smell of it lingering in the air until he is out of the WH. The same could be said of Michele also, who has a staff of over 2 dozen people and what has she contributed to us? NOTHING!, NOTHING!, NOTHING!, What a useless woman!

If you are hurting America, you are not helping us, you are working against us and that is in my opinion what being a traitor is all about. With DC filled with some many lawyers that know every legal loophole known to GOD we are better off to save our energy for when he is removed from office to start bringing our country back to its former glory and let him and Michele live out their days on a beach in Hawaii and leave us alone.

[patriot08]

Using U.S. tax payer money to go to Kenya to campaign for Muslim/mass murderer Odinga.

[Oceander]

You have to ask?

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