Posted on 07/30/2009 8:35:25 PM PDT by Edward Watson
The entire birther argument, that Obama was actually born in Kenya instead of the US, making him ineligible for holding the office of the President of the US, is a spurious argument. It plays into Obama and the liberals hands - they want this to continue since it makes regular conservatives and opponents into fringe wackos.
Not one of us would've looked harder at his legitimacy than Hilary Clinton and the entire Clinton smear machine during the Democratic primaries. That magic bullet would've given Hilary the presidency - and yet nada, bupkis.
There are many valid reasons to oppose Obama and the liberals, but his birthplace isn't one of them.
“IF it came before SCOTUS, you would get a 9 to 0 ruling that: Natural-born citizen and ‘citizenship acquired at birth’ are the same. And any child of legal foreign residents is a US citizen at birth, and ergo a natural-born citizen. 9 to 0, slam dunk. “
Ain’t gonna happen. All NBC’s are citizens at birth. All citizens at birth are not NBC’s and the Wong Kim ruling says no sucha thing.
But Wong Kim Ark itself worked a change in the way the government saw and applied the 14th amendment. It worked a radical narrowing of "subject to the jurisdiction," and while arguable, it's basically an immigration policy decision for most purposes.
The Wong Kim Ark decision was not "Wong Kim Ark is a natural born citizen, entitled to all rights of natural born citizenship (including eligibility to be president)." It said he was every much a citizen as a natural born citizen. So is every naturalized citizen every much a citizen as a natural born citizen.
Why didn't the Wong Kim Ark court say, directly, that Wong Kim Ark was a natural born citizen? Why is his citizenship "every much," and not "it?"
I agree that for all people, except those who hold the office of Pres and VP, the line of reasoning holds up fine. But not for Pres and VP.
I was reading a bit this morning, and learned that there is a cottage industry for Koreans and Japanese mothers to come to the US to give birth, after which they return, with child, to their country. These citizens of the US will be raised in a foreign land, and the birthright citizenship is used to open the possibility of education in the US, and similar perceived advantages. Is that what the founders intended, by qualifying only the Pres and VP as needing to be natural born citizens?
The birther “movement” isn’t as simple as you are making it out to be.
The issue has been and has always been much more then demanding Obama release his vault birth certificate. The birth certificate is simply one of numerous documents that Obama has failed to release that is standard information provided by every single person running for president in the last 50+ years.
The birth certificate issue proves one undeniable fact and gives significant credibility to what we have been saying for over a year; the press not just failed in their job to vet Obama they have been actively covering for him.
From Chrissy Matthews on MSNBC saying his “job” is to make sure this president is successful, to CNN claiming Obama’s records have been destroyed (later proved false by Hawaii itself) to dozens upon dozens of media outlets stating Obama’s BS has already been released, it has not.
Obama has spent his entire political life using every tactic, illegal, unethical or through simple intimidation to prevent any negative press and to completely prevent anyone from investigating his background and credentials for high office.
Last weeks media push to prove us “birthers” as crazies backfired on Obama and his handlers. Instead of putting the issue to rest they exasperated the problem by showing Joe and Jane America that Obama has not been forthcoming with information we’ve all had to present numerous times in our lives.
After reviewing the Senate resolution on McCain which O’Zero voted for, McCain was eligible as a NBC because he was born to American Citizens...........It seems the requirement to be born of two citizens to acquire NBC status is still there in spades. Confusing native and natural is a means for confusing the issue. It appears that being born on american soil of one citizen or non-citizens does not in fact make you a NaturalBC but a NativeBC. I am glad I reviewed the documents. It seems like BO has a problem and the smoke is getting pretty thick.
By your logic, I can take a document that purports to be my birth certificate, scan it into a computer, run it through Photoshop and make changes to the scan, as evidenced by any $2 Hex Editor, then save it as a .jpeg.
Having saved the above referenced file, I can then upload it to a website as a .jpeg image, download the picture back to my laptop and use it as legal, verifiable evidence of my identification.
By your reasoning I should be able to take my laptop into any government office and they will accept the download as certified proof of my identification, correct?
Utter lunacy. I said no such thing.
Why are so many people afraid of seeing Obama’s real birth certificate? It amazes me.
Who here is afraid of showing their own birth certificate?
” I was reading a bit this morning, and learned that there is a cottage industry for Koreans and Japanese mothers to come to the US to give birth, after which they return, with child, to their country. These citizens of the US will be raised in a foreign land, and the birthright citizenship is used to open the possibility of education in the US, and similar perceived advantages. Is that what the founders intended, by qualifying only the Pres and VP as needing to be natural born citizens? “
I am well aware of this particular abuse, and I would support either Congressional action and/or constitutional amendment if it came to that to end it. It is possible IMHO for the 14th amendment ‘under the jurisdiction’ clause to be interpreted by Congressional statute to exclude those foreigners who are here a short time, on tourist visas or as illegal aliens.
However, the fact that today such cases *are* considered citizens at birth shows how broadly the definition is applied. It’s less a matter of ‘was it intended?’ and more a matter of ‘what does the law say?’
Just a thought, but what better way to discredit anyone who dares to criticize the 0 then to let this issue rise to the forefront and then produce the actual birth certificate. The officials in Hawaii have said they've seen the original, but aren't allowed to release it until the 0 says they can.
FWIW, I think this is a dead end. The SCOTUS refused to take up the issue. The congress won't regardless of who is in the majority. Who's left to do the right thing?
It is clear that birthplace only matters if his parents were citizens. BO’s parents were not both citizens unless the puzzle of the long form says Frank Davis was the father or some other citizen. If it BO Sr., then BO is a fraud. Clearly, the framers did not want divided loyalties otherwise there was no need to exempt themselves. What our idiots on the court decide is anybody’s guess, but the birth problem is real. Roberts has had adequate reasons to bring it before the court, but is a buttboy, apparently, for Obama. The shelving of the issue means one thing only that the court has just deleted the Natural Born clause re: VP and Pres. despite their sacred oaths to defend the document.
At this point, CertificateGate isn’t about where he was born. It is about a man who promised transparency being extremely secretive about all his early records, and refusing to release an original birth certificate, a document that we all release for any number of reasons on a regular basis.
He could have been born in downtown St Louis, Missouri for all I care.
I just want him to end the secrecy. The original birth certificate is easy to do. Bring it to a news conference. Let the journalists xerox it, and then run it in papers and on internet.
Are you willing to show your birth certificate?
It is clear that birthplace only matters if his parents were citizens”
Actually the opposite. If his parents were US citizens, it doesnt matter where he was born, he’d be a citizen at birth.
If he’s born in the USA, he’s a citizen at birth as well, under the 14th amendment birthright citizen clause.
“unless the puzzle of the long form says Frank Davis was the father or some other citizen” Why do people say fairy tale junk like this? What kind of a gullible set of nutters do you want to look like, making something up like that?
Your right, this is a dead end, but it is Obama who has his back to the wall.
If he produces his birth certificate, then THAT particular issue will most likely be resolved, but I am convinced that the Original Birth Certificate, if there is one, when it is finally produced will open a whole new can of worms for Obama that he doesn't want opened.
This is not a calculated plot to make conservatives look like buffoons, but I believe it is a calculated plot to hide the fact of who Obama really is, and Obama doesn't want that information released to anyone.
For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. Mark 4:22
You nailed it right there. If someone is prepared to hide something as generic as a birth certificate, they will hide anything.
BINGO. You know, I feel like the spectator of a horror flick. I *know* the next move. The Lib MSM will build up the birthers to be 'the enemy' then pop the balloon at the time of their choosing.
Speak for yourself and no one else asshole!
“At this point, CertificateGate isn’t about where he was born. “
Was this decided because birthers are starting to clue in to the reality that Obama really *was* born in Honolulu on Aug 4 1961?
“It is about a man who promised transparency being extremely secretive”
Good. If that’s what’s it about, can we junk the phony conspiracy theories about him being born in Kenya or having a different Dad than BHO Sr and other baseless allegations? That kooky stuff is just plain embarrassing to most conservatives.
Wonderful point. I hadn't thought of it that way.
He should be as transparent with his college and law school records. I'm still trying to figure out how a guy who did not make Honors at Columbia got into Harvard Law.
Figure out who the "man behind the curtain" is and EVERYTHING will make sense. And realize that the person pulling the strings is someone who TERRIFIES the Clintons, otherwise Zero would have been destroyed a long time ago just like all of their other enemies.
That is exactly what you are saying.
Barack Obama is said to have released his COLB to factcheck.org who took the supposed document “touched it, felt it” and determined the form was legitimate.
After their “professional” investigation of the document, they scanned it into a computer, ran it through Photoshop multiple times; which is easily verified by any $2 Hex Editor, they then saved it into various .jpeg files which were then uploaded to their website.
On the basis of their investigation, we were told Obama is eligible based on these uploaded files, we are also told these files are his Birth Certificate.
On the basis of factcheck.org uploading of files to their website, we the citizens of the US are to be satisfied that Barack H. Obama is who he purports to be and is indeed constitutionally eligible to be Commander and Chief.
You claim he has satisfied his responsibility of proving his eligibility by having factcheck.org provide these uploaded .jpeg files. In fact, your primary source of evidence that Obama has satisfied his constitutional eligibility is by sourcing factcheck.org.
So once again I ask you, if I was to do the same with my birth certificate; and it would need to be my birth certificate since I do not have a COLB or short-form BC, I should be able to do exactly what Barack Obama did and have a government agency accept this as proof of my citizenship and identity?
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