Posted on 07/30/2009 8:35:25 PM PDT by Edward Watson
The entire birther argument, that Obama was actually born in Kenya instead of the US, making him ineligible for holding the office of the President of the US, is a spurious argument. It plays into Obama and the liberals hands - they want this to continue since it makes regular conservatives and opponents into fringe wackos.
Not one of us would've looked harder at his legitimacy than Hilary Clinton and the entire Clinton smear machine during the Democratic primaries. That magic bullet would've given Hilary the presidency - and yet nada, bupkis.
There are many valid reasons to oppose Obama and the liberals, but his birthplace isn't one of them.
Show me anything, just anything, that proves one needs to be born to two citizen parents to be natural born. Anything.
The problem with your McCain post, by the way, is that you’re quoting Leaky Leahy, who was lying in this respect: John McCain was born in Colon, the Republic of Panama, not in the Canal Zone.
““So, was his dad a US citizen?.”
No, he wasnt. See #489.”
Then he’s not a natural born citizen.
2ndDivisionVet
Since Oct 1, 2006
Newbie. :-)
“Nope, not a good source. Does not make the case for being Natural Born unless there are two citizen parents. Try again.”
You’ll have to tell me why not so I can help you.
TANKS,,,Sure has been a lot of them lately...
Still waiting for your proof. The only logical conclusion to draw is that you have no proof.
Text of 14th amendment:
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
Pretty clear cut. Born in U.S., and you are a citizen. To be a natural born citizen means to be born a citizen, as opposed to a naturalized citizen, who has to be made a citizen.
Excerpt from Wong Kim Ark SCOTUS case. Admittedly not a natural born clause case, but they did say this:
“...his [the resident alien’s] child...‘If born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen…’”
Every bit as much a citizen as the children of citizens.
Compared to you, who isn’t? LOL I don’t recall lecturing other Freepers when I was only a month here, but maybe my CRS is kicking in.
“We don’t know if he was born in Hawaii or not.”
Well, we do. You are just pretending ignorance on it in an attempt to get documentation.
” We have not seen his actual long form birth certificate. “
For purposes of proving birthplace, not necessary. The proof is provided by having verified documentation from the State of Hawaii records and a state official vouching for it.
Maybe you can demand her sign an affadavit or testify in court, but I’m sure not court would *require* more than that to prove to a courts satisfaction that Obama was born in Hawaii.
“If he was not, according to the laws on the books in 1961 his alleged mother could not transmit citizenship to him, and therefore he could not possibly be natural born.”
False. the laws only pertain to birth overseas and he was born in Hawaii; see above.
Since natural-born citizenship can only be affirmatively renounced (see Perkins v Elg) the college records are not relevent.
“You’ll have to tell me why not so I can help you.”
You could help me understand why you think a child of a non-citizen is a natural born citizen, when he is obviously not.
Do you know what what said - how did it happen?
I was just joshin’ with you, really. I just hate the whole thing of looking at people’s sign-up dates to judge them instead of judging them on their arguments.
Forget it, saquin. You’re running a juvenile debating tactic, and frankly, it’s just not that interesting.
Try actually joining the discussion, and airing your views. Maybe someone will talk to you.
Its at the crux of our political opposition certainly, and his secretiveness about his records is the least of it.
Its not at the crux of this silly controversy. He is President, unfortunately, but legally.
“He may be ‘as much a citizen’, but he is not ‘as much a natural born citizen’”
To be as much of a citizen as a natural born citizen is to be as much a natural born citizen as a natural born citizen to my ears. Where do you find a distinction?
“Then he’s not a natural born citizen.
Still waiting for your proof. The only logical conclusion to draw is that you have no proof. “
Actually, I don’t have proof. I was going by his admission that his dad was Kenyan. But, as I said I have no independent proof of that. But if he is not lying about his dad, then he is not a NBC. If he is a NBC, then he is a liar. It’s one of the two.
“Why isnt this sufficient proof? ...”
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_2.jpg
“You must be a rookie. That Obama short form birth certificate they analyze is phony and debunked many times”
No it hasnt. It’s been *claimed* be debunked many times, but like most birther-isms, all hat and no cattle.
claims that the form was wrong - oops, other 2007 COLBs are exactly the same.
doubts about the lack of cert # - then it came out with one. claims that cert # wa wrong. then other cert #s line up with it.
so it goes.
The more data that comes out, the more this COLB gets validated and confirmed.
“How come Hawaii itself has never directly released the Obama short form if it is so helpful?”
It’s illegal for the state to do that. Violates privacy laws.
Its enough that it was shard by Obama campaign and the document was photographed.
The state in turn has vouched for it as best they can within the law:
http://spotlight.vitals.com/2009/07/dr-chiyome-fukino-confirms-president-obamas-natural-citizenship/
Not according to the multiple experienced attorneys and trained US diplomats I've asked about this question. I'm pretty sure they know more about this than you do.
Since natural-born citizenship can only be affirmatively renounced (see Perkins v Elg) the college records are not relevent.
It's hard for me to imagine a more affirmative renouncement of citizenship than to receive aid as a foreign student or to obtain a passport of a foreign power claiming citizenship in that country.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
