State declares Obama birth certificate real, again

Wash Post ^ | 7/27/09 | staff

[pissant]

HONOLULU -- State officials again are confirming that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Monday she has seen the original birth records that verify Obama was born in Hawaii, and is a "natural-born American citizen."

Fukino made the announcement in hopes of ending any lingering rumors about Obama's citizenship. She issued a similar press release Oct. 31.

[El Gato]

There is now talk that his mother renounced her citizenship

If he was born in the US, it wouldn't change anything. If he was born outside the US, it wouldn't change anything. Inside, he is a native born citizen, outside, no sort of citizen at all, unless later naturalized of course.

[El Gato]

Unless she's a judge in a court establishing a fact, she had no business doing that.

In general, judges don't establish facts, juries do that. However judges do say what the law is. In this case it would have to be either a Court of Appeals, or the Supreme Court, if the case were in Federal court. A state suit is possible, to cause electoral votes to be withdrawn as improperly cast, then it would probably be the State Supreme Court and then the US Supreme Court.

[El Gato]

The birth certificate issue is only one aspect of the eligibility question. Laws governing citizenship in 1961 determine whether Hussein is a NBC

No they don't. The meaning of Natural born citizen, which cannot be changed by law, and the facts of his birth, determine his natural born status. Statute laws cannot change the meaning of Constitutional terms. Otherwise the Constitution isn't worth the parchment it's written on.. oh wait.. well I'm not quite ready to concede that just yet.

[El Gato]

You can certainly make an argument that is what the framers intended, but it is incorrect to say Article 2 [section 1, clause 5] states it.

It's not a matter of their "intent", but rather their understanding of or put another way the meaning of "Natural born citizen". A subtle difference perhaps, but "intent" is essentially unknowable, unless one can find it stated somewhere, but even then the intent of one may not have been the intent of others. Meaning however is less "fluid", at least at a given point in time.

[El Gato]

f it can be proven that Ø was not born in the US, then it would also need to be shown that his mother left the country before her 18th birthday. Otherwise, where he was born is irrelevant.

It still would not be irrelevant. Because, if he is a citizen *only* because of act of Congress, he can't be natural born. This is because Congress only has the power to define a uniform rule of naturalization, per Art. I Sec. 8 of the Constitution. They do not have to power to change the definition of "natural born citizen". They clearly changed the definition/requirements for the class of citizen he would be in 1952, when that requirement was passed, and again in 1986 when the residency requirements were changed. Those are far from the only changes, but are two that most impact The Status of The One.

[csense]

I’m fine with that...

[El Gato]

So Obama should be "white" on that certificate.

Hawaiian Certificates of Live Birth from that era, or since AFAIK, do not state the race of the child, only those of the parents. Here's on from one of a pair of twins born the day after BHO's COLB image says he was born

Note the file number. The twins file numbers were as one would expect, sequential. Obama's COLB has a file number 3 numbers higher than the second twin's, yet he was supposedly born the day before and almost 17 hours earlier, in the same facility, Kapi'olani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital, or so it's claimed now, and his shows it was filed 3 days earlier.

Hmmmm.

If it matters to anyone's theories, Aug. 4, '61 was a Friday.

[cynwoody]

Originally and possibly still, the "short form" process made sense. It was even done when the short form *information* was saved on written logs. It's much cheaper in terms of storage space, physical or computer memory (tape, disk, even punched cards) to just save the information, in character format, than an image of the whole thing.

My impression is that giving out abstracts is a recent development and has taken place after the technology to store and retrieve digital images became available. In the old days, they'd fetch the paper out of a physical file, photostat it, sign it, stamp it, and mail it. A totally manual process, except for the photocopying step.

As early as the seventies, the technology to store an online database of abstracts existed. Images would have been out of the question, of course. But it would have been easy for a minicomputer of the day to retrieve an abstract out of an index-sequential file and print a certificate identical to the modern Hawaiian short form, albeit probably dot-matrix or line-printer, not laser.

So, it's strange that they should be reverting to abstracts even as digital image storage is now trivially available.

[El Gato]

This does just about put the birthplace to rest. It would take massive cohones for a public official to lie on behalf of another to do this.

Well, it might not be a lie. The Director just said she'd seen the "original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii". He did not say where that record came from. Was it a hospital birth or a home birth. Interestingly the twins born in what is allegedly the same hospital, the next day, had their certificated filed 3 days after his was filed. He was born "after hours" on a Friday, they on Saturday afternoon. If the hospital filed all three certificates, you would expect them to be filed either the same day, because of the weekend, probably on Monday, or at most a day apart, if they worked the paper on the weekend.

[El Gato]

Obama indicates he saw relevant information pertaining to his birth when he wrote about being 8 pounds, 2 ounces, yada, yada, yada. That information is not on the certificate of live birth, but rather would come from a hospital/midwife/or delivering attendants that are provided with a "formal"

Or he could have made it up. It's large but not unreasonable weight. Although pretty big for someone as small as Stanley Ann, and BHO Sr was not especially large or hefty either.

[El Gato]

Dr. Chiyome Fukino, has just repeated her statement from October that she has personally and with her very own official eyes seen the "original vital records" regarding Obama's birth in Honolulu's Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital on Aug. 4, 1961."

That's just the LA Times making things up. Notice it's not in quotes. Dr. Fukino said nothing about the hospital. They did get the "original vital records" quote correct.

[El Gato]

A judge will hear an argument that the moon is made of green cheese... LOL... but that doesn’t mean too much...

It does if the Judge orders NASA to provide a sample of some of the material brought back from the moon. If the sample shows traces of green cheese.. the argument will succeed, if it doesn't then the argument will fail.

It's We might suspect what the truth is, and have some evidence to support our suspicions, but it's proof we desire and truth we are after.

[MeekOneGOP]

Obama could END this real quick.

Just show us his BC.

Q: “Where’s the birth certificate?!?”

A: “It’s under the pickle!”

Obama: America’s first Pickle-in-Chief!!

[eyedigress]

I am under the belief that he doesn’t have one or that the document contains information that confirms his lying status. To refuse the document released is stunning to me.

[El Gato]

That case is about citizenship, not natural born citizenship. Tuan, Anh Ngyen is a citizen, but by virtue of statue law and regulation, not the definition of “natural born”. He most likely is not a natural born citizen. But in any event that was not a issue in the case.

[MeekOneGOP]

Yes.

Obama is a liar.

A certified liar.

His lips are moving.

:)

[El Gato]

Didn’t someone say that twins were born and their announcement was pulled from the newspaper to make room for baby Obama?

Imgages of certified copies of their birth certificates, from Microfilm or microfiche are now on line at the Honolulu Advertiser.

I don't think that statement is really true, but certainly they contain more information than a modern Certification of Live Birth contains. And that of course is the point of needing to see the original/long form/Certificate.

[El Gato]

No conspiracy in 1961, just a mother wanting her baby to be an American citizen. Simple

More likely a grandmother wanting her grandchild to be a US Citizen.

[csense]

Note the file number.

The file number being out of order doesn't mean anything. They're put on the certificates by the Printers themselves, then sent to whoever ordered them. From there they are subdivided and disbursed to the different agencies, hospitals or whatever, that need them, where they probably get subdivided even more within the Hospital itself. Even if the Hospital didn't subdivide them, there could be more than a down different reasons why the certificates may not be used in perfect sequence, especially if you're talking by only a few degrees of separation, which is the case here.

[csense]

down = dozen