Posted on 06/06/2009 6:24:20 AM PDT by Zakeet
I'm wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments. One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet's boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists.
But it's worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic, a conservative community, to gauge the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives.
First, quite a few people are saying that murder is wrong, no matter how evil the victim was.
SnakeDoc:
Thou Shalt Not Murder. Both the shooter and the victim will be judged.Patriot preacher:
Pro-lifers should condemn this as antithetical to their philosophy and beliefs. Hopefully, the perpetrator will be apprehended and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I will shed no tears that Teller is gone -- but MURDER is MURDER.
Then a large group is making a more practical argument that this was bad because it will backfire. In fact, a startling large number believe Tiller was murdered by Obama or pro-choice allies in order to justify a crackdown on guns or civil liberties:
upchuck:
This serial-killer piece of excrement will be held up by every abortionist and every lover of abortionists as the reason why the Secret Service needs to be assigned to guard every abortionist,every abortion mill and every lover of abortions in this country.gridlock:
Obama is going to take advantage of this murder to sieze even more control over our society. I would not even put it past them to commit this murder themselves, as an excuse to sieze power. Reichstag Fire, and all that...jazminerose:
Will form the rationalization for really stomping on pro life groups. Was it one of BO's storm troopers who pulled the trigger?
Then there's a large number of people who flat-out applaud the killing. I'm going to print a lot of them because it's really unfair to pluck a few extreme quotes off any websites message boards. What's amazing is the sheer volulme of people thinking this way:
imahawk:
One less nazi as far as I am concerned.Turret Gunner A20:
Hope the guy gets away....Do you think that it would have been murder to assignate Hitler? And don't say that the question has no relevance -- this crud was a leading the killer-of-innocents criminal thugs that has already killed throughout the world far more innocents that Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined. His killer did a great service when noone else would do it.calico_thompson:
Well, at least the perp didn't rip his arms and legs off and then suck his brains out.Gaffer:
No doubt this 'man' is responsible for thousands, maybe tens-of-thousands of needless and wanton deaths. If you think his 'passing' is a bad thing in the cause of speaking out and ending the practice of abortion, I don't know what to tell you. I can only say that I shall not mourn his demise, nor shall I judge others.TheDuke:
But, wasn't this just another late term abortion(?)Slump Tester:
It's too bad the suspect didn't poke a roto rooter through his skull and then suck him into a vacuum cleaner instead of just shooting the bastard.SampleMan:
Whether he will be judged as a murderer by God may be an open question, and none of us know the answer. In 1942 Reinhard Heydrich was killed in Prague in cold blood. Czech commandos committed what was by the law of the land murder. They were from a country that had surrendered and they were not in uniform. They did this because he was orchestrating the destruction of the Czech people. Did they kill a tyrant or commit murder or both? There is also the case of course of John Brown and slavery. Yes we must obey our laws, until we can no longer live with the result of not obeying them.babygene:
killing to prevent a serial killer from claiming his next victim probably doesn't fit into the category of murder...Cheetahcat:
Nothing to see here just his last abortion this one many trimesters Post Birth.Ahithophel:
He will till no more in the bloody garden of evisceration.UnwashedPeasant:
What kind of "church" was this? The Wright kind?steve86:
I guess the allies should not have killed a single Nazi soldier in WWII?eccentric:
It is not murder to kill someone to save someone else's life.353FMG:
The shooter had to kill in order to save the lives of numerous future children. If the shooter is considered a murderer, then so are our brave soldiers. They (the soldiers) have to kill in order to save our lives from the constant threat of terrorism.mrsmel:
It's too bad, when murderers on the left who really did target innocent people are rewarded and lauded. This man Tiller was responsible for the horrific deaths of thousands of innocent babies, and we are supposed to be shame-faced that someone stopped him in his tracks from jabbing scissors into yet another babies' head and sucking their life out.
and from another thread:
Canedawg:
i wouldnt feel too badly if some of the communists in our govt met a similar fate. That doesnt mean i am about to go around killing anyone, but if someone else does the deed, i wont be crying over the tainted blood of treasonous actors and infanticiders.Glenn:
How about rejoicing for all the children this "Doctor" will not murder now?Flintlock:
I tried to get upset about this.
I failed.
My bad, I guess.stockpirate:
God BLESS the man that killed Tiller.
It is time the left started to feel the wrath of conservatives.
There is a time for peace and a time for war.
Jesus said I came not to bring peace but a sword. Those who beat their swords into plows will plow for those who do not.
A people unwilling to use extreme violence to preserve their liberty deserve the tyrants that rule them. The two phrases are written over the doors of the Justice Department in DC, "Repression breeds violence" and "Where justice ends, tyranny begins"
Certainly the unborn are suffering under the boot of tyranny and are being repressed by the ungodly.
Rightous men have an obligation to change the wanton murder of the unborn.
A nation that allows the murder of the unborn deserves God's harsh judgement.
and this thread:
Lexington Green:
What goes around...newfreep:
Whatever "church" Tiller attends must be worshipping satan.IDRATHERNOT:
Tiller Shot & Killed? Thousands of unborn children claim self defense.wardaddy:
he reaped what he's sowed same as anyone so evilSloth:
*shrug* Genocide has consequences.The Sons of Liberty:
Shooting was too good for him. Too bad his body wasn't torn to pieces like his victims.
May he burn in hell for eternity.wardaddy:
This guy wa a monster period.
Did you cry when Dahmer got killed in the joint?
Would you worry about Manson?
nothing personal but ya'll are soft as butter.
I make no apologies whatsoever, folks here will be ill prepared for where we're headed.whatisthetruth:
I'm only surprised this didn't happen sooner, couldn't have happened to a better man, IMO.P-Marlowe:
If you TRULY believe that Abortion is murder, then you cannot condemn anyone who would do anything to stop this mass murderer from continuing in his crimes. This is where the rubber meets the road. If you call abortion murder, then this was justifiable homicide. If abortion is not murder, then Tiller was the victim of a heinous crime and his killer should be condemned.mjp:
Sometimes retaliatory force is necessary to stop initiation of force by those who are violating natural rights. Preservation of life and natural rights of the innocent is a natural duty that God requires.tips up:
If the killer just put scissors into his skull, it would be considered a late term abortion (60+ years late) and he would be a hero of the left, rather than a domestic terrorist.gscc:
I suppose if Hitler had been assassinated there would have been many "good" Germans who would have looked at the assassin as a "crazy". Let's face it - this country has lost it's soul. We live in a post-Judeo-Christian nation and it will only go down hill from here. There will certainly be many "good" Americans that lament the passing of this evil man. With a federal government, press and apostate "church" firmly entrenched in liberal secular theology we are witnessing the end of the founder's America.MichiganConservative:
It's abortion in the 272nd tri-mester (ROTFLMAO)
Post-extraction lead-induced termination.
Excellent reply to “BeliefNOT”, you spoke for me as well. That site in no way speaks for Biblical Christianity.
It appears to me that there are a few DU posters who frequent that site. Like the alleged former freeper "Joe".
What are you suggesting here? That by not outlawing abortions or jailing abortion providers, It’s the system’s fault that Roeder shot a man?
The abortions that Tiller specialized in were forbidden under Kansas law which provided that late term abortions were only legal when there was a "grave threat to the physical health of the mother."
Sebellius and others looked the other way and did not investigate or prosecute Tiller for his wanton disregard of Kansas law.
The fact of the matter is that if Sebellius and the Kansas authorities had done their job and shut down the clinic, George Tiller would be alive today (and rotting in prison). And there would be a lot of children alive today who might otherwise have been murdered by this animal.
So the answer to your question is... yes.
I respectfully disagree. The only one who put a gun in Roeder’s hand was Roeder himself and he pulled the trigger.
Then a large group is making a more practical argument that this was bad because it will backfire. In fact, a startling large number believe Tiller was murdered by Obama or pro-choice allies in order to justify a crackdown on guns or civil liberties:
From the news:
Obama Dept of Justice Starts Investigation
It was just announced that Attorney General Eric Holder and the Department of Justice has begun an investigation into the shooting of Dr. George (you know the Abortion doctor who killed babies just before they were to be delivered for a fee of $5000) Tiller as a possible hate crime. Holder's Justice Department says it is looking into whether any "hate group" incited the killing. Holder has announced the DOJ's intent to go after any individual or organization who opposes abortion in this country.
Perhaps y'all were on to something!
And when the hammer drops, you can put the blame squarely on the shoulders of Roeder and men like him as well as the ones who are celebrating Tiller’s killing. They’re practically giving the opposition the ammo they need.
Agreed!
If that's true then why is this murder any different than any other? What are you upset about?
I'd have to say that there were probably over 100 murders in the United States since noon yesterday.
What makes this one so special?
I don't see you crying or complaining about drug dealer Jose Sanchez being gunned down on 14th street in LA yesterday. Why does Tiller garner your sympathy?
Since it was solely the responsibility of the killer, it was just one angry guy taking out someone he didn't like. It happens hundreds of times a day. Move on. Jose and George are both rotting in hell today. Cest la vie.
I believe that beginning with the big media hype “Rise Of the ‘Christian’ Left”, there’s an agenda being enacted by the left to undermine the true church, almost the last bastion of western civilisation, the same way they’ve already undermined academia and the media. They work just like termites, rotting the structure from within while the exterior may look much the same. Until the day the whole rotten edifice crumbles.
Everyone who has ever expressed the sentiment that ABORTION IS MURDER is probably guilty of that "crime."
By calling abortion "murder" those who make that statement will be in part guilty of "inciting" someone to do what Roeder did. There are probably more Roeders out there who will take words like that to heart.
I believe that Abortion is murder. There, I said it again.
I'm sure they know where they can find me.
If we believe Abortion is murder and we say so publicly, then we cannot be absolved of any and all responsibility for those who take our words seriously.
Words have meaning. Words are powerful weapons in the war of ideas.
Use them judiciously.
If you don't truly believe that Abortion is murder, then don't call it murder. Call it something else.
“If that’s true then why is this murder any different than any other? What are you upset about?”
It’s no different. Those murders piss me off too.
“I don’t see you crying or complaining about drug dealer Jose Sanchez being gunned down on 14th street in LA yesterday. Why does Tiller garner your sympathy?”
If by sympathy you mean I hate to see someone shot in the head in Church, then I’m guilty as charged.
>> Do you believe that ABORTION IS MURDER?
What people believe, or know instinctively, may not be consistent with the law. By today’s law, abortion is not murder, and claiming so is an inaccuracy if the dialog is structured within the context of the law. As it stands, abortion is legal killing.
Definition of Murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by another.
Abortion: the lawful premeditated killing of a human being by another.
I think it’s more accurate and onerous to say abortion is legal killing than to call it murder. They, the unborn, are forever God’s children, but law and the process of law enforcement will determine who gets to live and which mortals will be punished for murder.
The law appears to be inconsistent in that it recognizes the killing of an unborn child as murder when the death of the child is not authorized by the mother. How many mothers are forced or persuaded against their better judgment to abort their pregnancies? Could such cases be considered a form of kidnapping and murder? What about compelling a woman to commit abortion at a point where the woman’s confused and her judgment is impaired?
How about having their brains sucked out in a clinic?
Gee whiz, what does one have to say to get quoted by “editor-in-chief” of a nobody’s blog?
BTTT
Amen, number of post on the other hand is a useful indicator on FR. I think.
I don’t know how many times I can say it. I’m against abortion. I hate it and think its disgusting. I think killing this doctor is as equally disgusting and wrong and does nothing to help the Pro Life movement.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.