Did Obama Order George Tiller's Murder? (Article about FreeRepublic Alert)

Bliefnet ^ | June 1, 2009 | Steven Waldman

[Zakeet]

I'm wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments. One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet's boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists.

But it's worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic, a conservative community, to gauge the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives.

First, quite a few people are saying that murder is wrong, no matter how evil the victim was.

SnakeDoc:
Thou Shalt Not Murder. Both the shooter and the victim will be judged.

Patriot preacher:
Pro-lifers should condemn this as antithetical to their philosophy and beliefs. Hopefully, the perpetrator will be apprehended and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I will shed no tears that Teller is gone -- but MURDER is MURDER.

Then a large group is making a more practical argument that this was bad because it will backfire. In fact, a startling large number believe Tiller was murdered by Obama or pro-choice allies in order to justify a crackdown on guns or civil liberties:

upchuck:
This serial-killer piece of excrement will be held up by every abortionist and every lover of abortionists as the reason why the Secret Service needs to be assigned to guard every abortionist,every abortion mill and every lover of abortions in this country.

gridlock:
Obama is going to take advantage of this murder to sieze even more control over our society. I would not even put it past them to commit this murder themselves, as an excuse to sieze power. Reichstag Fire, and all that...

jazminerose:
Will form the rationalization for really stomping on pro life groups. Was it one of BO's storm troopers who pulled the trigger?

Then there's a large number of people who flat-out applaud the killing. I'm going to print a lot of them because it's really unfair to pluck a few extreme quotes off any websites message boards. What's amazing is the sheer volulme of people thinking this way:

imahawk:
One less nazi as far as I am concerned.

Turret Gunner A20:
Hope the guy gets away....Do you think that it would have been murder to assignate Hitler? And don't say that the question has no relevance -- this crud was a leading the killer-of-innocents criminal thugs that has already killed throughout the world far more innocents that Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined. His killer did a great service when noone else would do it.

calico_thompson:
Well, at least the perp didn't rip his arms and legs off and then suck his brains out.

Gaffer:
No doubt this 'man' is responsible for thousands, maybe tens-of-thousands of needless and wanton deaths. If you think his 'passing' is a bad thing in the cause of speaking out and ending the practice of abortion, I don't know what to tell you. I can only say that I shall not mourn his demise, nor shall I judge others.

TheDuke:
But, wasn't this just another late term abortion(?)

Slump Tester:
It's too bad the suspect didn't poke a roto rooter through his skull and then suck him into a vacuum cleaner instead of just shooting the bastard.

SampleMan:
Whether he will be judged as a murderer by God may be an open question, and none of us know the answer. In 1942 Reinhard Heydrich was killed in Prague in cold blood. Czech commandos committed what was by the law of the land murder. They were from a country that had surrendered and they were not in uniform. They did this because he was orchestrating the destruction of the Czech people. Did they kill a tyrant or commit murder or both? There is also the case of course of John Brown and slavery. Yes we must obey our laws, until we can no longer live with the result of not obeying them.

babygene:
killing to prevent a serial killer from claiming his next victim probably doesn't fit into the category of murder...

Cheetahcat:
Nothing to see here just his last abortion this one many trimesters Post Birth.

Ahithophel:
He will till no more in the bloody garden of evisceration.

UnwashedPeasant:
What kind of "church" was this? The Wright kind?

steve86:
I guess the allies should not have killed a single Nazi soldier in WWII?

eccentric:
It is not murder to kill someone to save someone else's life.

353FMG:
The shooter had to kill in order to save the lives of numerous future children. If the shooter is considered a murderer, then so are our brave soldiers. They (the soldiers) have to kill in order to save our lives from the constant threat of terrorism.

mrsmel:
It's too bad, when murderers on the left who really did target innocent people are rewarded and lauded. This man Tiller was responsible for the horrific deaths of thousands of innocent babies, and we are supposed to be shame-faced that someone stopped him in his tracks from jabbing scissors into yet another babies' head and sucking their life out.

and from another thread:

Canedawg:
i wouldnt feel too badly if some of the communists in our govt met a similar fate. That doesnt mean i am about to go around killing anyone, but if someone else does the deed, i wont be crying over the tainted blood of treasonous actors and infanticiders.

Glenn:
How about rejoicing for all the children this "Doctor" will not murder now?

Flintlock:
I tried to get upset about this.
I failed.
My bad, I guess.

stockpirate:
God BLESS the man that killed Tiller.
It is time the left started to feel the wrath of conservatives.
There is a time for peace and a time for war.
Jesus said I came not to bring peace but a sword. Those who beat their swords into plows will plow for those who do not.
A people unwilling to use extreme violence to preserve their liberty deserve the tyrants that rule them. The two phrases are written over the doors of the Justice Department in DC, "Repression breeds violence" and "Where justice ends, tyranny begins"
Certainly the unborn are suffering under the boot of tyranny and are being repressed by the ungodly.
Rightous men have an obligation to change the wanton murder of the unborn.
A nation that allows the murder of the unborn deserves God's harsh judgement.

and this thread:

Lexington Green:
What goes around...

newfreep:
Whatever "church" Tiller attends must be worshipping satan.

IDRATHERNOT:
Tiller Shot & Killed? Thousands of unborn children claim self defense.

wardaddy:
he reaped what he's sowed same as anyone so evil

Sloth:
*shrug* Genocide has consequences.

The Sons of Liberty:
Shooting was too good for him. Too bad his body wasn't torn to pieces like his victims.
May he burn in hell for eternity.

wardaddy:
This guy wa a monster period.
Did you cry when Dahmer got killed in the joint?
Would you worry about Manson?
nothing personal but ya'll are soft as butter.
I make no apologies whatsoever, folks here will be ill prepared for where we're headed.

whatisthetruth:
I'm only surprised this didn't happen sooner, couldn't have happened to a better man, IMO.

P-Marlowe:
If you TRULY believe that Abortion is murder, then you cannot condemn anyone who would do anything to stop this mass murderer from continuing in his crimes. This is where the rubber meets the road. If you call abortion murder, then this was justifiable homicide. If abortion is not murder, then Tiller was the victim of a heinous crime and his killer should be condemned.

mjp:
Sometimes retaliatory force is necessary to stop initiation of force by those who are violating natural rights. Preservation of life and natural rights of the innocent is a natural duty that God requires.

tips up:
If the killer just put scissors into his skull, it would be considered a late term abortion (60+ years late) and he would be a hero of the left, rather than a domestic terrorist.

gscc:
I suppose if Hitler had been assassinated there would have been many "good" Germans who would have looked at the assassin as a "crazy". Let's face it - this country has lost it's soul. We live in a post-Judeo-Christian nation and it will only go down hill from here. There will certainly be many "good" Americans that lament the passing of this evil man. With a federal government, press and apostate "church" firmly entrenched in liberal secular theology we are witnessing the end of the founder's America.

MichiganConservative:
It's abortion in the 272nd tri-mester (ROTFLMAO)
Post-extraction lead-induced termination.

[Allison_Wonderland]

I believe the reason the story has fell off the radar screen is that the MSM does not want people to realize exactly what Tiller was doing. They have portrayed him as an “abortion doctor” which many people may still think was a provider of first trimester abortions.

Once people begin to realize that this man made millions of dollars killing fully formed fetuses most reasonable people will be disgusted.

Many people still do not understand exactly how third trimester abortions are performed. And the MSM does not want to risk them finding out.

[Minn]

Do you really care what scumbag leftists say about pro-lifers?

Actually, I care very much what scum bag leftists are able say that is believable to the broader middle. You know, the folks they pulled over the cliff with them last November? If you don't also care about that, then you have no clue how politics works. When a scumbag leftist only has to spend a little time perusing this site to extract the mother load of foolishness that he did, I care very much.

Last Sunday was the first time in over ten years of active participation on this site that I was genuinely ashamed of the what I read from fellow Freepers. The immaturity and inability to reason was very disappointing. We are fighting a major battle on for the very survival of the republic. Some of us here are handing those seeking to destroy everything we hold dear, the all the weapons and ammunition they need to permanently continue their stranglehold on power. Grow the hell up, would you?

Just imagine how much better it would have been if this character had come here seeking to find the idiotic comments he found, and instead come up empty. If I was JimRob, I'd have banned every one of you, for the good of the prolife cause, and conservatism in general.

[bereanway]

That’s a very difficult photo to view, but one that needs to be seen. What type of an individual would willingly engage for simple profit in a line of work with that being representative of its end result?

To starve would be a million times better than engaging in something so abhorrent.

[Shaun_MD]

Thank you. From what I’ve seen over the past few weeks, I’m about ready to opus myself out of here.

[Jeff Head]

Sadly, tragically, sometimes it takes a graphic shock to get people to realize the depth of depravity a set of circumstances has led to.

I derive no pleasure whatsoever from either seeing it, or posting it.

The holocaust pictures are graphic...but they burn through ALL of the rationalization of the apologists to that gruesome time in history.

This set of events is even more gruesome, and much more numerous. 50 million and more.

Like the holocaust pictures, anyone with a centilla of truth, justice, and virtue running through their veins, cannot view the truth of this practice (as difficult and unsavory as it is to view) and then come away calling it good..."lawful", "a woman's "choice"...once it is exposed exactly what that choice really involves.

Braveman: A apologize for any offense.

bereanway: Thanks for your kind words.

THE GRUESOME TRUTH OF THE ABORTION HOLOCAUST & THE DEATH OF DR. TILLER [Warning: A graphic photo of death & dismemberment]

[Vindibudd]

Come on, why don’t you post pictures of porn to show us how wrong that is, too? People that post pictures of aborted babies to people who ALREADY think abortion is wrong are sick. Maybe you think this gory photo is somehow AN AWESOME ARGUMENT, but it is NOT. It reminds me of the idiots that run around in public places flashing giant gorefests to children, scarring them for life, because OMG PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW. People DON’T need to see these pictures to be persuaded, the people that you are trying to reach already know that they are killing children, this sort of tactic does nothing to change their minds. Learn to make an argument with words. It will be more effective. Oh, if you used words, I don’t know what they are cause I had to squint my eyes to get past the COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY PHOTO.

[P-Marlowe]

Thanks Zakeet. I was expecting some of my comments on Tiller's execution to make it into the blogosphere.

I left the following comment for the bleeding hearted editor in chief of BelieveNot:

P-Marlowe

June 6, 2009 10:25 AM

There were a total of 56,000 human beings exterminated at Buchenwald. If you believe that a fetus with hands and feet and a beating heart is a human being, then by his own statements George Tiller exterminated 60,000 human beings in his clinic in Wichita. I suppose you would like it if people like me were all teary-eyed and choked up over Tiller's execution?

I don't know whether or not his killer was a Christian or just a fed up human being who was appalled by the slaughter of the innocents. I do know, however, that I will be praying that he is acquitted of any murder charges. I suppose there are a lot of Christians who can't wait for Tiller's killer to receive the same treatment that Tiller gave to the 60,000 innocent human beings that Tiller sent to their graves.

[Jeff Head]

See my post 25. Sorry you are offended. But there is nothing sick about it. Distateful, difficult to see, gruesome? Yes, yes, and yes. But it is not porn, and trying to equate the factual, gruesome death of a living child to porn is, IMHO, sick itself.

Would you equate the graphic holocaust pictures to porn? If you would, then there is no sense continuing any type of dialog.

The holocaust was a horrific genocide that had to be exposed for what it was. Abortion is the same.

[Ahithophel]

There once was a doctor from Wichita
Who aborted the children of patients he saw
And confronting his killer in church
Down the aisle this Tiller did lurch
Gurlging, “But it was legal under the law.”

[cybervyk]

You are perfectly able to leave any time someone’s comments offend you. No one is forcing you to stay.
How you like them apples?

[trisham]

Those pictures are extremely upsetting to me as well, which is why I am more and more avoiding threads about abortion.

[P-Marlowe]

Jeff, everytime I see one of those pictures, it shocks me just a little less than the last time.

Eventually I fear my senses will become immune to it.

Please try to be a little more judicious about posting pictures like that. You're preaching to the choir here.

[cybervyk]

I just suggested that Minn can leave the forum if Minn is upset. Sounds like you have one foot out of the door, the other would go pretty easily.
DLTDHYOTWO

[BuckeyeTexan]

You know, the folks they pulled over the cliff with them last November?

Nobody was pulled. They went knowingly and willingly. And good riddance. If they can't stand up for what's right and wrong through their votes, then I don't want them corrupting my party with their mediocre values.

If you don't also care about that, then you have no clue how politics works.

Trade my values for political votes? No thanks.

[Jeff Head]

P, as you know, there are tens of thosuands of lurkers on these threads who are not necessarily the choir, but I do apologize for any offense. It was not meant and I derive no pleasure or satisfaction from posting such a thing.

See my posts #25 and #28.

God bless you for your own stand.

[aruanan]

I suppose there are a lot of Christians who can't wait for Tiller's killer to receive the same treatment that Tiller gave to the 60,000 innocent human beings that Tiller sent to their graves.

SUPERMARKET MORALITY
or
"If I don't like it, I can always take it back."

Abortion is not a matter of "reproductive rights" or "women's issues" or "constitutional safeguards". It is a matter of selves grown so introverted, of wills of either gender become so fixated on their own fulfillment that the biological, social, and moral consequences of their own actions are set upon by them as infringements on their belief that the vine of reality ought to grow exclusively up the trellis of their own will. It is a matter of selves under the delusion that they are most fully "human" when they are most fully freed from nature's and society's demand that they be either male or female, enjoy (or at least acknowledge) the difference, and accept the consequences.

For them reality therapy is to throw everyone else onto the couch.

Too bizarre to be mistaken for anything else but the condition of a diseased spirit is the dichotomy of thought manifested in the appeal, on the one hand, to the poor, illiterate, unloved, socially-disadvantaged, abused and abusing bastard of incestuous rape who will only be an additional drain on an already overpopulated planet unless he/she/it should first agonizingly die from a genetic defect inherited from parents too selfish and insensitive toward it, toward themselves, and toward the welfare of society to prevent its suffering by means of a "therapeutic" abortion; and, on the other hand, to Noble Woman, guardian and embodiment of Constitutional virtue, struggling to protect herself from the advances of a rapacious, patriarchal religion and society, to cast off the biological shackles slapped on her by a cruel and unjust evolution.

It is a rationale designed to justify any choice and to silence any criticism. It is an awfully big gun to pull out for something they allege to be merely a medical decision between a woman and her physician. To remove or not to remove a wart is a decision on that level.

And here is where the slip shows--although they claim (or want to believe) that doing it is nothing, attempting to prevent, to limit, or even to talk first about their doing it is everything.

"Hey! Get the hell off of my will! Just who do you think you are to attempt to even think about imposing your morality on me? Besides, can't you see how much I'm suffering?" they say while imposing something far more severe than morality on those who literally depend on them for life.

To put it even more into perspective, imagine a bumper sticker reading: My fetus was chosen Unviable Tissue Mass of the Month at the Me-First Womyn's Health Center.

Even lab rats get more consideration.

Abortion is a denial. It is a denial of nature, of responsibility, of self-sacrifice, of love, and of life. And what is left? A will whose choices are unobstructed by any of the above.

"Well, that's done," they say, turning to pat and admire the shape of their uncoerced will. "Maybe I'll take this sweater back today, too."

[muawiyah]

Typical of the leftists I must say ~ first silence the messenger. We will mount a major prayer vigil for you to see if you can be pulled back from the brink of the Abyss.

When it comes to the "party of death" and their allies like George Tiller, it's perfectly sensible to think of them as "other than human", if only for your own self-protection.

Now, for your thoughts regarding the "broad middle" ~ ain't no such thing. We elect our representatives from "single member districts". Because of that the entirity of the electorate is forced to gravitate to one of two poles ~ some resist and they end up on "the fringe", not "the middle".

The description of our electoral map is called a "bi-modal saddle".

To win elections folks advocating on behalf of one pole must pull in voters from the other pole. Or, alternatively, figure out how to SUPPRESS THE VOTE for the other pole.

I think Obama succeeded in sucking in some from Republican circles, and at the same time scaring off many Conservatives with the complaint that George Bush and his crowd had spent too much, were soft on homosexuals, and had pi$$ed off the world. That's how he got more votes than McCain.

At the same time, by suppressing the vote he won many more Representatives to the House than he had anticipated.

It is up to us to encourage "the other pole of politics" to believe we are angry, fed up with their BS, and ready to roll. We must have succeeded if we could get this particular Leftwingtard, ol' what's his name, Wildman?, to bother reading our threads and classifying the comments. He may learn something.

[P-Marlowe]

Just imagine how much better it would have been if this character had come here seeking to find the idiotic comments he found, and instead come up empty. If I was JimRob, I'd have banned every one of you, for the good of the prolife cause, and conservatism in general.

Hey Minn, do you believe that Abortion is Murder? If so the Tiller committed 60,000 murders. He killed more human beings than the Nazi guards at Buchenwald.

Are you all teary eyed about Roeder performing a late term abortion on Tiller?

Would you like a hankie?

[prismsinc]

THAT WAS MY POST! MINE!

[muawiyah]

Nobody gets scarred for life. The human mind is quite resillient. We rise up from our baser natures. Maybe you didn’t but I have.