Posted on 05/17/2009 11:54:06 PM PDT by sheikdetailfeather
In times past, coalminers working in the depths of the earth took along caged canaries. As long as the canaries warbled, the miners knew they were safe from the methane and carbon monoxide that would kill them in minutes. But when the tiny songbirds stopped singing, the miners knew to run for their lives.
(Excerpt) Read more at canadafreepress.com ...
Ah. You win.
ML/NJ
*shrug* The truth goes a looooonnnggg ways towards convincing me.
Thanks for adding a better perspective to my mental data base!
It's simple to understand. Most American Jews have all but abandoned any deep understanding of the covenant relatinship between God and his people, which involves the land of Israel. This is not much different from the rampant spread of replacement theologies among many Christians that tend to support Sparky. Without a deep understanding of that covenant committment, why wouldn't they support Obama? Infected theology produces infected everything else. Note that most orthodoxed and Messianic Jews do not support Obama, because they understand the deeper meaning of their scripture.
Well..., the other thread got locked... hmmmm...
Some years back there was a flood in the midwest.
"Dick" (not his real name) was in its path.
His neighbors came by and offered to drive Harvey to safety.
Dick said, "No thank you, God will protect me."
As the water started to rise the National Guard came by in a deuce-and-a-half and offered to move him to a shelter.
Dick said, "No thank you, God will protect me."
Soon the streets and his yard were under water.
The fire department came by with their rescue boat and offered him a lift.
Dick said, "No thank you, God will protect me."
Soon the water rose to the eves of his roof, Dick went up onto the ridge top.
The Army showed up with a helicopter and begged Dick to get in the basket.
Dick said, "No thank you, God will protect me."
Shortly after the helicopter faded out of sight, the house collapsed under the force of the rushing water. Dick was swept away and drowned.
When Dick got to heaven he asked God "Why didn't you protect me?
God said "I tried. I sent a car. I sent a truck. I sent a boat. I even sent a friggin' helicopter!"
Star Traveler, don't be a Dick...
Respectfully submitted.
Well, there is a hatred of Israel in a large group of Christian churches. But, there is a smaller but *significant group* that gives Israel her support from Christians. The following tells exactly *what group* of Christians that is, and which groups display a hatred for Israel...
I outlined where this “hatred” still exists in the Christian church today and is still in existence in certain “theologies” that *promote* that hatred, in the following thread...
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Unrequited Love: Evangelicals and Jews
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2249869/posts
[ from http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2249869/posts?page=7#7 ]
The article said — Christianity continues to throw aside a long history of anti-Semitism to embrace what increasingly powerful Evangelicals see as God’s view of the Jewish people.
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This is sort of a misleading statement. The fact of the matter is that “Christianity” is *not* throwing aside a long history of anti-Semitism.
The *same anti-semitism* of “Christianity that was represented in the past, is still in evidence and practice today in the so-called Christian circles, because they have not changed their attitudes that result from the *false theology* that they’ve been carrying along, all these past centuries. That theology is still in play today. And that leads to the continued anti-Semitism.
Where you will find the *overwhelming support* of Israel, is from the Christians who believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, in all that it teaches *and* in all that it says (on anything it says). And along with that goes the absolute confidence that the Bible describes the future events related to Israel, very literally, in the prophecies of the Old Testament and the New Testament. It’s that conviction that these prophecies will be fulfilled exactly as God says they will that leads to that support of Israel.
Now, there’s a very long history in the so-called “Christian church” where there’s a theology (in many churches) that says that Israel has no more significance with God, any more than any other nation in the world does. There’s nothing special about Israel, as far as God is concerned. And that God has basically “given up” on Israel, since they refused to recognize Jesus as the Messiah, and now the “church” is the one who takes the “driver’s seat” and God is concerned with the “church” and *not* with Israel any more.
That viewpoint leads to many churches condemning Israel and promoting Palestinians issues and politics over Israel. So, when you see a *large segment* of “Christianity” supporting Palestinian issues over Israeli interests and to the detriment of Israel — you can be assured that it’s *this group* of Christians who believe that Israel has no more significance in God’s future plans and that the “church” has taken over the “promises of God” (given in the Bible to Israel). They say that the church is the “new Israel” (and thus the present-day Israel has nothing to do with what the Bible says for these present times).
The ones who *will support* Israel, are the Biblical inerrancy supporters, the supporters of future prophecies being fulfilled in terms of Israel — and more specifically (in some theological terms) — those who believe in the pre-millennial view of Christ returning to earth, and predominantly the pre-tribulational view of the Rapture of the church prior to the Tribulation and the Dispensational view of Scripture.
That’s the area where the support of Israel comes from — and *not* from those who *deny* those positions that I’ve just outlined.
You can be pretty well assured that those who deny the coming 1,000 year reign of Christ on this earth (as Revelation says) will not support Israel as having any significance in God’s future plans. And those who deny the Rapture of the church will for the most part not be supporting Israel. Those who decry “Dispensationalism” as a method for understanding the Bible will also castigate anyone who thinks that Israel should be supported any more than Afghanistan or India or Mexico or Bolivia should be supported or having any significance with God.
In terms of their teachings and theology that leads to denying support of Israel, for the most part, it’s the Catholic Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Lutheran Church, and others who deny the theology as listed above (that I noted come from people who *do support* Israel).
Anyone who decries “prophetic events” of today as leading to the “end-times” spoken about in the Bible, as saying that these ideas are not valid from the Bible — are basically the ones who will also deny any support of Israel from any Biblical significance and from any plan of God (for Israel) for the future. You can see them posting here on Free Republic repeatedly, decrying what the Bible says about the future of Israel and denying that Israel has any significance at all.
So, keep in mind, that the *primary support* comes from those who do held to the concept of Biblical Inerrancy, along with a pre-millennial position, and (mostly) from a pre-tribulational Rapture of the Church, along with the acknowledgement that Christ will rule and reign over this earth in the 1,000 year Millennial Reign (in Revelation 20, for example), along with those who hold to a Dispensational viewpoint of the Scriptures. *That* is where the “Christian support” of Israel comes from.
The rest of the so-called “Christian church” is actually *against* Israel and the antagonism towards Israel (in this large segment of the Christian church) is ramping up and increasing. And it’s *this group* that appears to be growing into the *Apostate Christian Church* of the end times, denying what the Bible says that God will do with Israel.
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For reference to the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy, a position held by many Christians (and especially those who support Israel, for sure...) see the following link...
Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy with Exposition
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html
The “Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy” was produced at an international Summit Conference of evangelical leaders, held at the Hyatt Regency O’Hare in Chicago in the fall of 1978. This congress was sponsored by the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy. The Chicago Statement was signed by nearly 300 noted evangelical scholars, including James Boice, Norman L. Geisler, John Gerstner, Carl F. H. Henry, Kenneth Kantzer, Harold Lindsell, John Warwick Montgomery, Roger Nicole, J. I. Packer, Robert Preus, Earl Radmacher, Francis Schaeffer, R. C. Sproul, and John Wenham.
The ICBI disbanded in 1988 after producing three major statements: one on biblical inerrancy in 1978, one on biblical hermeneutics in 1982, and one on biblical application in 1986. The following text, containing the “Preface” by the ICBI draft committee, plus the “Short Statement,” “Articles of Affirmation and Denial,” and an accompanying “Exposition,” was published in toto by Carl F. H. Henry in God, Revelation And Authority, vol. 4 (Waco, Tx.: Word Books, 1979), on pp. 211-219. The nineteen Articles of Affirmation and Denial, with a brief introduction, also appear in A General Introduction to the Bible, by Norman L. Geisler and William E. Nix (Chicago: Moody Press, rev. 1986), at pp. 181-185. An official commentary on these articles was written by R. C. Sproul in Explaining Inerrancy: A Commentary (Oakland, Calif.: ICBI, 1980), and Norman Geisler edited the major addresses from the 1978 conference, in Inerrancy (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1980).
Clarification of some of the language used in this Statement may be found in the 1982 Chicago Statement on Biblical Hermeneutics [http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago2.html ].
The “hatred” of the Jews still goes on in the Christian church. Pay attention to the *specific theology* of the Christian church which *does not* contain that hatred!!
Probably because the Democrat party is run in large part by liberal Jews (Soros, Frank, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, Emmanual, Levin, etc....)
That's odd, there has only been a period of about thirty years in US history when school prayer was not a common practice. And this "Christian fundamentalist view of Israel" is a very small minority of Christians. The overwhelming majority simply view Israel and some surrounding areas as their "Holy Land" where Jesus and other early Christians lived. Most Jews probably knew few if any conservative Christians.
I think the leftist American Jews going batty over the beliefs of a small minority of Christians are very guilty of stereotyping, something I thought good liberals never did.
Rev. Jeremiah Wright (left) is greeted by fellow speaker William Ayers and Rebekah Levin, with the Committee for a Just Peace in Israel and Palestine, today at the First United Church of Oak Park. (Tribune / Chuck Berman) Get the full story: Ayers, Wright push Mideast peace in Oak Park.
thanks for the link KeyLargo, but my computer malfunctioned when I tried to access it.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/blog
Essentially, Jews who are leftists are cultural Jews who turn to the State for guidance and protection, not to God. In that regard, they are nothing more than secular socialists.
Also, they leave the traditional roots of their religion the same way many Christians do: through academe.
Jews typically put a high value on education. As such, they end up being as brainwashed as everyone else, turning against religion as a cultural and political foundation.
Also, much of the Jewish “voice” in America originated from the early 20th century inner city. There, they came from largely from Europe, had a very rough time of it, but pulled together for each other’s survival. That “experience” encouraged them to pass down to their children and to pass down (again, through academe) the importance of taking care of people who are struggling. That message got kidnapped by the Socialists (and the Labour Party in England, too) and converted into a support for Socialism. Ironically enough, at about the same time, Socialism had been pushed out into theology and religious studies in academe and started being preached from the pulpit, furthering the slide from religion to Statism in the very houses of God.
Israel is in the hands of God and not us. Our responsibility is to stand with God (or as others do, stand against God, not a good position)...
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These things pertaining to Israel weren’t things in the hands of our former President Bush, and they’re not in the hands of Obama, either — or Netanyahu. They’re in the hands of God, and He’s told us about them, in His inerrant and infallible Word, the Bible.
As we see in Psalm 121, God says...
Psalm 121:4
Behold, He who keeps Israel Shall neither slumber nor sleep.
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1 I will lift up my eyes to the hills — From whence comes my help?
2 My help comes from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth.
3 He will not allow your foot to be moved; He who keeps you will not slumber.
4 Behold, He who keeps Israel Shall neither slumber nor sleep.
5 The LORD is your keeper; The LORD is your shade at your right hand.
6 The sun shall not strike you by day, Nor the moon by night.
7 The LORD shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.
8 The LORD shall preserve your going out and your coming in From this time forth, and even forevermore.
And then, we should also take note of Psalm 2...
1 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 ”Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 ”Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 ”I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ “
10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.
Psalm 83
1 A Song. A Psalm of Asaph. Do not keep silent, O God! Do not hold Your peace, And do not be still, O God!
2 For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; And those who hate You have lifted up their head.
3 They have taken crafty counsel against Your people, And consulted together against Your sheltered ones.
4 They have said, “Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, That the name of Israel may be remembered no more.”
5 For they have consulted together with one consent; They form a confederacy against You:
6 The tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites; Moab and the Hagrites;
7 Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek; Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre;
8 Assyria also has joined with them; They have helped the children of Lot. Selah
9 Deal with them as with Midian, As with Sisera, As with Jabin at the Brook Kishon,
10 Who perished at En Dor, Who became as refuse on the earth.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb and like Zeeb, Yes, all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
12 Who said, “Let us take for ourselves The pastures of God for a possession.”
13 O my God, make them like the whirling dust, Like the chaff before the wind!
14 As the fire burns the woods, And as the flame sets the mountains on fire,
15 So pursue them with Your tempest, And frighten them with Your storm.
16 Fill their faces with shame, That they may seek Your name, O Lord.
17 Let them be confounded and dismayed forever; Yes, let them be put to shame and perish,
18 That they may know that You, whose name alone is the Lord, Are the Most High over all the earth.
Isaiah 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
There are many who say they wish they were here for the First Coming of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel — but *we are here* for the Second Coming of Jesus the Messiah of Israel, of which many prophecies in the Bible are yet unfulfilled, and are due to be fulfilled at any moment, now.
I don’t have to worry about the situation in the world, as it’s in God’s hands and He is the One who controls all things and will bring them all to the ends He has already fore-ordained.
Long read but a good summary.
OK. STAND!
Sitting in a corner reading your Bible and blandly telling all who would listen that there is no need to act is a pathetic "stand".
Thanks.. ;) FTD
You said — That’s odd, there has only been a period of about thirty years in US history when school prayer was not a common practice. And this “Christian fundamentalist view of Israel” is a very small minority of Christians. The overwhelming majority simply view Israel and some surrounding areas as their “Holy Land” where Jesus and other early Christians lived. Most Jews probably knew few if any conservative Christians.
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See Post #28 for an explanation of the Christian church that hates the Jews, versus the smaller group of Christians that definitely support Israel and the Jews.
You can see who is on what side, in the Christian church. Not all Christian support Israel — but — there is *one group* of Christians that support Israel based on their theology of what the Bible says...
I’ve always said if you don’t read your Bible you can’t know what it says, and especially about Israel.
I would advise people to read that Bible and read it diligently and know exactly what it says is going to happen with Israel, along with what is going to happen with you, too (i.e., each one of us...).
Agreed. Not the call I would have made, since the newer thread had the full text.
If I catch threads like this I usually post a “Link to an earlier related thread (not a duplicate) or some-such”
That seems to vaccinate the newer more complete thread, while allowing those interested in the earlier conversation to find it.
Didn’t think to do it this time. *sigh*
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