Posted on 04/22/2009 7:12:17 AM PDT by AmericanHunter
When Texas Gov. Rick Perry floated the idea of secession if the federal government continues to pursue an aggressive tax-and-spend policy, the mainstream media, as well as the political establishment, cringed.
MSNBC’s Chris Matthews called talk of secession “whack-job stuff,” calling Mr. Perry a “bozo” and telling the Texas governor, “You don’t have a choice buddy.” Mr. Matthews’ colleague, Rachael Maddow, said Mr. Perry was “flirting to the point of adultery” by talking about secession, while commentator Thomas Frank reinforced the disconnect between the media and many Americans.
“What you’re seeing … what is one of the surprising things about these tea parties … surprising to people like you and me, is how mainstream extremism is in the Republican Party and the conservative movement,” Mr. Frank, author of Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule, told Ms. Maddow.
But is the idea of secession a foreign concept to the American experience? Is talk of secession automatically treasonous? Is any secessionist movement doomed to be defined by the Civil War and exiled to the political wilderness?
“I think the biggest surprise to me was the outrage expressed by an individual who even thinks ... along these lines,” U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, said yesterday on CNN’s American Morning.
“Because I heard people say, well, ‘this was treason,’ they say, and ‘this was un-American.’ But don’t they remember how we came in to our being? We used secession. We seceded from England. So it’s a very good principle. It’s a principle of a free society. It’s a shame we don’t have it anymore.”
Dr. Paul, who ran a hard fought grassroots campaign for the Republican nomination in 2008, argued the principle of secession is one that protects the union rather than threatens it.
“I argue that if you have the principle of secession, our federal government wouldn’t be as intrusive into state affairs. And to me, that would be very good,” Dr. Paul said. “We as a nation have endorsed secession all along. I mean, think of all the secession of the countries and the Republicans from the Soviet system. We were delighted. We love it. And yet we get hysterical over this.”
Critics of the coverage of the secession comment argue the media is trying to paint the Republican Party as extreme. They say Mr. Perry was not advocating secession, but rather saying the federal government could cause its resurrection.
“We got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that?” Mr. Perry asked.
While the notion of secession was floated by Mr. Perry, he was not expressly advocating Texas leave the Union. Rather, the Texas governor used the idea in a manner Dr. Paul believes is historically accurate — to send a warning shot across the bow of a federal government that is encroaching on state’s rights and individual liberties.
Last week’s tea parties exposed a major rift in the country, and some are concerned the Obama administration does not understand the degree of dissent that is fomenting outside the Beltway. And despite panning by the political establishment, the majority of the nation viewed tea party dissent in a favorable light.
Fifty-one percent of Americans had a favorable view of the nationwide rallies, while 32 percent responded their view was very favorable, according to a poll released by Rasmussen Reports. A third of the nation had an unfavorable view with 15 percent unsure.
But among the nation’s “Political Class,” Rasmussen found just 13 percent held a favorable assessment and zero percent held a very favorable view of the nationwide protest. This disconnect, according to Dr. Paul, is a major part of the problem.
“People are angry. And if we don’t sense that, we don’t know it’s actually what’s going on there,” the Texas congressman said. Dr. Paul said the worst is yet to come because secession will achieve a greater legitimacy as the country struggles.
“When the dollar collapses and the federal government can’t fulfill any of its promises, what if they send you dollars and they don’t work,” Dr. Paul said. “People are just going to — they’re not going to have a violent cessation. They’re just going to ignore the federal government because they will be inept.”
Yeah, but a little over eighty years earlier, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington found that secession was a workable solution. Nothing works until it works. I know it's a little hard for all of us to get our brains around, and I'm not being sarcastic, but I know that several online polls have been put up in Texas, and they're usually hitting about 65% in favor of seceding.
Secession from the US, though, would definitely be Un-American. It would be pro-Texan.
Nope. Rights are "unalienable" - the Founders said so themselves. That means they can't be "given up."
of course they said that THE WALL was "to protect the people from INVASION", don't you know???
free dixie,sw
Some of Stand Watie’s words, taken from letters to and from his wife Sarah “Sally” Bell Watie(my grgraunt):
“Let me hear from you often and let me know how you are all doing,” her husband instructed. “Whenever the troops go into winter quarters I will go home to you, wherever home will be. I have not been as well this year as I used to. Can’t get rid of this bad cough. Saladin is well. The wild Indians from Kansas are getting to be very troublesome on the western border. Colonel Adair crossed the Arkansas River below Gibson but we have not heard from him since. Adair has stirred up the Pins no doubt before now. All agree that the Feds are short of provisions, since the failure of the enemy to occupy Texas.”
He continued, “Quantrill crossed the Arkansas River near the Creek Agency and killed eight men. Creeks. One of them shot a little boy and killed him. Some of the Creeks who were along returned today and brought this news. I have always been opposed to killing women and children although our enemies have done it. Yet, I shall always protest against any acts of that kind,” he insisted.
Stand reluctantly reported, “Two days ago a part of Quantrill’s men fired on the guard at Boggy Depot. Killed one man and wounded another. A few days ago a party of Missourians took off Shelton’s black boy Peter. In the fray Wiley Forester was killed. No property is safe anywhere, stealing and open robbery is of every days occurrence. I am very tired of this camp. We have very bad water.” He complained as he spat the last drop of it on the ground.
Sally gazed at her husband, who seemed to have aged ten years in the last months of this war. She wondered if he thought the same of her. He continued his details of recent circumstances.
“After Park’s death all sorts of lies were told that I had planned everything. I am sorry that I should be charged in public of an act of that kind but it seems that is my doom. Although these things have been heaped upon me and it would be supposed that I become hardened and would be reckless, but it still hurts my feelings. I am not a murderer!”
Watie’s moral turmoil was apparent. “Sometimes I examine myself thoroughly and I will always come to the conclusion that I am not such a bad man at last as I am looked upon. God will give me justice. If I am to be punished for the opinions of other people, who do not know my heart, I can’t help it. My great crime in the world is blunder. I will get into scrapes without intention or any bad motive. I call upon my God to judge me. He knows that I love my friends and above all others my wife and children, the opinion of the world to the contrary notwithstanding.”
From Chapter 9 - Camp Watie
The Red River, Choctaw Nation, 1863, Cherokee Mounted Rifleman Unit
From the book, “Jesus Wept” An American Story
YES i and every other TSALAGI in the world is PROUD of our departed/LIVING warriors.
we Tsalagiyi have a LONG history of being "freedom fighters", in many a GOOD, though lost, cause.
like the southerners in 1861, we just want to be LEFT ALONE.
free dixie,sw
i'm proud to be his defender, poor one though i am, on FR. (it is said among THE PEOPLE, "If the warname of one who has walked on up the trail of stars is remembered, in some measure he lives again".
free dixie,sw
A little more for you.
Same chapter
Stand always had a price on his head courtesy of the Pins and bandits loyal to no cause as well as Federal troops chasing him year after year through Missouri, Arkansas, Indian Territory and Texas but none were ever able to capture him. He became the only Indian to achieve the rank of Brigadier General in the Confederate or Union armies, receiving that appointment from Confederate States President Jefferson Davis. Legend passed down by his followers has it that he was the bravest man that ever put foot on Cherokee soil. The full bloods believed that this Indian general possessed a charmed life, and that the bullet was ‘never molded that could kill Stand Watie’. Some thought he had the ability to foretell events of the battlefield and that he prophesied who would or would not fall in battle at a certain time and place.
The pro-Southern Cherokee soon gained a reputation for being formidable soldiers. Their scouting endeavors led by William Penn Adair as ‘chief of scouts’ gained notoriety as far away as the Confederate capital of Richmond, Virginia. Watie and his forces remained dedicated to the treaty that they had signed with the Confederacy. For Stand Watie and the other ‘Knights’ it was survival of their way of life to dedicate themselves to the existence of this rebel government.
A fighting style that set the Native America troops apart from their white counterparts was their habit of avoiding artillery fire and direct charges. Many southern soldiers found it odd that the Natives withdrew when heavy ordinance was unleashed and sought defensive positions away from the enemy. For the Cherokee, the objective was to fight and to win, not to stand around and wait for the enemy to shoot them down. A defensive position made it possible to continue the fight. The Union troops fought hard for every inch of territory that they managed to secure and the Confederates never gave up an inch without making the forces they saw as invaders pay dearly.
Doing as much damage to the enemy as possible became the rule. In late October of 1863, after seeing their families safely on their way to Texas, Jim Bell, Watie and other willing Knights scouted their way to Tahlequah and burned the old council house, killing several Pins in the process.
With that deed done, they proceeded to Park Hill near Tahlequah where they captured some of John Ross’s family. But for the promise Watie had made only days before to his wife, it is likely none of the Ross faction would have survived. They also brought in some of Ross’s Negroes. Unlike the edict to end slavery for the Southern Cherokee, Ross was able to retain his slaves with his new found alliance to the Union, even in exile. Before they left Park Hill, Watie ordered Ross’s antebellum house, Rose Cottage, to be burned to the ground, killing several more Pins who refused to surrender.
It doesn't matter where US forces would be deployed in the USA. They would be surrounded and their supply lines would be impossible to protect. Please, G-d, let this never happen to our beloved nation...
“Please, G-d, let this never happen to our beloved nation... “
Agreed.
I heard that, it would be a totally bad situation, but the sometimes you need a good fire to clean out the undergrowth to make the tree grow stronger...
Big Harry, have you ever lived in Texas..I have all of my life except for a time that I traveled and lived out of the country..The reason I ask you this is I for one know that the people in this State will take so much and then just watch it don’t be on the other end when we lose our tempers(not you in general but the government)..No I do not ever think Mexico will ever take back Texas..Now it might be offered to them by Obama and crowd but they will have a hell of a time getting it..
The 1845 Annexation agreement.
And as far as the comment about abandoning others to Obama.....hey that was their choice. Rather than see my tax dollars go to this socialist punk, I'd just as soon see it handled responsibly, and not thrown away to wasted social programs.
Finally, that comment about us Secessionist Texans as being cowards and weaklings is pretty funny. Come and down and tell us that. My inkling is that you would be in the "Danger Zone"
Would you care to expand on that?
Last time I checked, the Constitution requires revenue and spending bills to originate in Congress...
************
Bush never vetoed a budget!
He didn’t want a fight with Democrats.
A political wimp,like his dad.
By definition, it’s unamerican.
That doesn’t mean it’s wrong...it just means that we DO NOT require Liberal (or US Supreme Court) approval to do it.
Another myth.
Here's the 1844 Annexation Agreement.
Here's the 1845 Joint Resolution for Annexing Texas to the United States that the US Congress passed
And here's the Ordinance of Annexation that the Texas Convention passed ratifying the whole thing.
Find the part you're talking about.
Here is a Link to the agreement. Where does it say that?
Texas can get out anytime regardless of whether it has an agreement or not. Secession isn’t prohibited by the Constitution and is therefore a right reserved by the states by the 10th Amendment.
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