Posted on 03/20/2009 12:11:23 PM PDT by pissant
NEW ORLEANS—Louisiana has 15 days to add the names of both fathers to the birth certificate of a boy born in Shreveport and adopted by a gay couple from out-of-state, a federal judge has ruled.
The state is asking the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the ruling by U.S. District Judge Jay Zainey, and to halt the order in the meantime, state Attorney General Buddy Caldwell said Thursday.
"The federal district court has significantly misinterpreted Louisiana vital records law, forcing Louisiana to import and adopt New York law," he wrote in a brief e-mailed statement.
Oren Adar and Mickey Ray Smith, who now live in San Diego, but adopted the boy in New York state, want both their names on his birth certificate.
State officials say that's illegal because, under Louisiana law, two single people cannot adopt a child. Zainey ruled in December that because the adoption became formal in New York, the Office of Vital Records must recognize that state's adoption law on the matter.
(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...
And one dingleberry in particular here insists Fact Check and Annenburg are nonpartisan. After being shown time and time again their left wing agenda. But this retard will be pointing again to Fact Check as “proof” of Obama’s NBC status.
Hey, he’s getting paid well to do that. 30 pieces of silver...
Then you will have to do that for ALL adopted children - not just the adopted children of gay couples.
Incidentally, it is my PERSONAL belief that a child is NOT well served by being adopted by a homosexual person. However, we need to work to change the laws then, and we will need to have compelling evidence that this is harmful to children if we want to overcome it.
However, the issue of gay adoption is a different issue altogether than what we are speaking of at this moment. We are talking about Vital Statistics and Records Laws. What does Louisiana do when a child originally born there is adopted by a married, male and female couple? Have they refused to alter the certificate for heterosexual single couples that have adopted out-of-state, or is it only in regards to this gay couple that they have claimed this grievance?
Weird, huh? Makes me wonder why we have them at all.
Only in your world. How ever did we survive without gay birth certificates and gay marriage for all these centuries.
Wow, should have read your post first before asking if it would be an adoption certificate rather then a birth certificate. What you wrote tells me that the government lies on all the official papers of adopted children. In this day and age it seems unfair to me. An individual should have the right to know the names and health of the people who’s biology conceived them.
Or what? Is Obama going to deny Louisiana its stimulus money?
NO. Adoptees BIRTH CERTIFICATES are amended to reflect the adoptive parents as their BIOLOGICAL PARENTS with no indication on the form that the child is adopted. Adoptees (in most states) are not even allowed access to their original birth certificates, much less see our Adoption Certificates...
Another angle on this — do you want a special class of citizens walking around that instead of their Birth Certificate they have to show “special identification” that identifies them as an adoptee? This is part of the reason Birth Records were sealed beginning in the 1930s (IIRC). Before that there was no sealing of the records.
Lots of issues surrounding this... And, NONE of them are easy to rationalize either. These laws, IMHO, are a violation of MY rights as an adopted child to know the TRUTH about my origins (where was I really born? what name did my birth parents give me, etc... etc...). As I mentioned these records laws also make it possible for an adoptive parent to outright lie to the child resulting in possible serious health issues (giving an adoptive family history as YOUR personal health history).
Granted nowadays most adoptive parents know better than to lie, and this doesn’t happen nearly as often as it used to even when I was born (1972 - and I didn’t find out I was adopted till 1989). BUT, it DOES still happen! I’ve personally spoken with women and men in their 60s that didn’t learn they were adopted till their parent died and they found the papers tucked away...
Perhaps this will cause an overhaul as to how adoption, and birth records are handled. That would be a great thing, IMHO - as long as the rights of the CHILD (who eventually becomes an ADULT) are considered instead of just the interests of the adoptive or birth parents...
the solution is really simple.
A birth certificate must list ONE mother and ONE father.
If the child created by labratory means then the father or the mother is unknown and listed as such.
There is no two male or two female parent birth certificates. PERIOD.
Adoption by homosexuals should be prohibited period.
Again - a COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUE HERE! You didn’t answer ANY of my questions and are instead harping on whether these men should’ve been allowed to adopt in the first place.
I’m sorry but no matter how much we hate it, or it disgusts us it’s not like you can use that as an excuse to not treat this CHILD as others are treated. You either treat him the same way the rest of us are treated, or you change the laws for ALL OF US ADOPTEES.
Again, we are talking about records laws that have been on the books since the 1930s. I don’t like the laws as you can probably tell seeing that the government holds papers on me in some filing cabinet I’m not allowed to see unless I have permission from a JUDGE (and good luck on THAT).
Stop focusing on the fact that this child’s legal guardians are gay men and start thinking about the CHILD here. It’s rather annoying to me personally that you are ranting and railing about this child’s birth certificate showing his legal guardians, but you can’t accept that I am telling you that ALL of our Birth Certificates are treated this way BY LAW. If Louisiana’s laws are contradictory then they need to rectify that situation obviously.
You and I have been on many threads discussing Obama’s Birth Certificate. Doesn’t it make you wonder in the LEAST BIT if these laws are part of the reason we are having so much trouble getting Obama’s “VAULT COPY” released? After all - HE IS AN ADOPTEE TOO!
My daughter in a university was flunked from a required English class for a final paper which opposed Homosexual adoption. She was told there was no scientific research to support her position.
I did answer your question. You just don’t like the answer. I’ll tell you again. No gay birth certificates. Period. Just like no gay marriage. Period.
It seems as if that would be simple indeed. However, those in favor of altered birth records, and closed adoption records would freak if they heard that suggestion — are you seriously proposing that a child’s biological parents REMAIN on their BIRTH certificate, is never altered even if adopted? (I’m all for it, but I’ve worked on these laws before. And people all of a sudden say — well then there will be more abortions, and nobody will adopt anymore, etc... etc... etc...).
So many lengths people will go to when as you said the solution is very simple — just DON’T CHANGE THE CERTIFICATE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
The individual can petition to have the original unsealed as soon as they reach 18. I was given a birth certificate for our adopted son listing myself and my husband as parents. It is not the school’s business, the baseball teams, the driver’s license bureau or any of the other assorted agencies that demand to see your birth certificate that my son was biologically born to anyone other than his parents.
If he chooses to release that information when he is an adult, that is up to him. There is no attempt to hide information from the adopted individual, and anyone else can go fish - it is none of their business.
see my number 34.
After having been through it, I am glad my son’s certificate was altered. I didn’t have to worry about a teacher or other government shill that “knew better” deciding to reveal info to my son about his biologic parents before he was ready.
Yes he knew he was adopted, but some of the less than savory details about his bio parents are not appropriate to share with a 1st grader, etc. THere is an appropriate time for every adoptee to find out about and meet their biologic parents, but that is up to the parents or the adopted person when they attain adulthood. If you think it is cruel to withhold this info at any time, I will tell you my son’s biologic mother became a drug supplier for him when he met her at 18 (against my will at the time) At least it wasn’t at age 6.
He has all the info he wants, having reached adulthood, and everyone else can go fish.
That makes no sense. She was writing about "her" position.
I never wrote a paper for an English course that required scientific research.
They are completely shameless.
I’m not sure if it plays in this but, not known to many, Louisiana uses a Napoleonic code as a basis for their civil laws. (Which is why, when one graduates from law school you’re told that you can practice law in all 50 States except Louisiana.)
So, the Federal Judge might be upholding the State’s intent. Doubtful, but possible.
From Wiki:
Civil law
The Louisiana political and legal structure has maintained several elements from the time of French governance. One is the use of the term “parish” (from the French: paroisse) in place of “county” for administrative subdivision. Another is the legal system of civil law based on French, German and Spanish legal codes and ultimately Roman law—as opposed to English common law. Common law is “judge-made” law based on precedent, and is the basis of statutes in all other U.S. states. Louisiana’s type of civil law system is what the majority of nations in the world use, especially in Europe and its former colonies, excluding those that derive from the British Empire. However, it is incorrect to equate the Louisiana Civil Code with the Napoleonic Code. Although the Napoleonic Code strongly influenced Louisiana law, it was never in force in Louisiana, as it was enacted in 1804, after the Louisiana Purchase of 1803. While the Louisiana Civil Code of 1808 has been continuously revised and updated since its enactment, it is still considered the controlling authority in the state. Differences still exist between Louisianan civil law and the common law found in the other U.S. states. While some of these differences have been bridged due to the strong influence of common law tradition, [9] it is important to note that the “civilian” tradition is still deeply rooted in most aspects of Louisiana private law. Thus property, contractual, business entities structure, much of civil procedure, and family law, as well as some aspects of criminal law, are still mostly based on traditional Roman legal thinking. Model Codes, such as the Uniform Commercial Code, which are adopted by most states within the union including Louisiana, are based on civilian thought, the essence being that it is deductive, as opposed to the common law which is inductive. In the civilian tradition the legislative body agrees a priori on the general principles to be followed. When a set of facts are brought before a judge, he deduces the court’s ruling by comparing the facts of the individual case to the law. In contrast, common law, which really does not exist in its pure historical form due to the advent of statutory law, was created by a judge applying other judges’ decisions to a new fact pattern brought before him in a case. The result is that historically English judges were not constrained by legislative authority.
Oren Adar and Mickey Ray Smith, who now live in San Diego, but adopted the boy in New York state, want both their names on his birth certificate.If this were 2004, John Kerry would be calling this a states' rights issue.
NO, you didn’t... I asked specific questions regarding how Louisiana has addressed similar situations, you just don’t like the fact that I’ve called you out on your refusal to actually look at the issue here, and are letting your hatred for gay adoption and marriage blind you to the facts.
AGAIN, I’m not saying you don’t have the right to feel that way — I DO TOO! Do you think I PERSONALLY would have wanted to be adopted by two GAY MEN, or two LESBIANS??? He$$ no...
But, the laws are as they stand right now — what the he$$ do you suggest be done? YOU are the one not being realistic here... The law is as it stands no matter how you FEEL about it. Fight to make sure it doesn’t happen in your state, fight to get these laws repealed if that is your desire — I’d support you every step of the way on BOTH of those things. ESPECIALLY if your efforts were to end the lies and corruption surrounding my entire personal identity, and you are protecting future adoptees from going through what I can only imagine is a very strange psychological upbringing.
HOWEVER, this case SPECIFICALLY DEALS WITH ADOPTION LAWS & RECORDS LAWS. If LA treats all other adoptions finalized in other states one way and refuses to acknowledge this adoption in the EXACT SAME WAY then THAT is ILLEGAL. You can’t pick and choose how the laws apply based on the sexual orientation of a person.
I’ll try again with the questions. PLEASE take a moment and look at this objectively without EMOTIONS in regards to this gay couple!
1.) What does Louisiana do when a child originally born there is adopted by a married, male and female couple out-of-state?
2.) What does Louisiana do when a child originally born in the state is adopted by an UNMARRIED heterosexual couple that have out-of-state?
3.) What does Louisiana do when a child originally born there is adopted by a SINGLE male or female in another state?
Regardless of how we personally feel these men are this child’s legal guardians now. They must be treated the same as other adopted parents, and their child as all other adopted children or you are violating OUR rights as adoptees. Period.
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