Posted on 03/01/2009 8:22:44 AM PST by STARWISE
Bill Clinton had the Vince Foster "murder." George W. Bush had 9/11 Truth. And the new administration has brought with it a new culture of conspiracy: The Birthers.
Out of the gaze of the mainstream and even the conservative media is a flourishing culture of advocates, theorists and lawyers, all devoted to proving that Barack Obama isn't eligible to be president of the United States.
Viewed as irrelevant by the White House, and as embarrassing by much of the Republican Party, the subculture still thrives from the conservative website WorldNetDaily, which claims that some 300,000 people have signed a petition demanding more information on Obama's birth, to Cullman, Alabama, where Sen. Richard Shelby took a question on the subject at a town hall meeting last week.
Their confinement to the fringe hasn't cooled the passion of believers; the obscure New York preacher James Manning turned up at a National Press Club session in December to declare the president "the most notorious criminal in the history not just of America, but of this entire planet."
(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...
In post #48, you said "This is ridiculous. The REPUBLICAN Governor of the state and the Lt. Governor (the de facto HI Secretary of State) have both said that the Obama Hawaiian birth certificate is LEGITIMATE."
I asked you to show me THAT quote. You can't, because it doesn't exist.
The FACT is that it was only the health officer who said that, quote:
Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
In the novel, 1984, you would have turned Winston in, wouldn't you?
How much longer we gotta wait?
Actually it does not seem to have been published anywhere how much a vault copy would cost. Hawaiian law says they can charge $10 for a copy of a birth certificate, but that's what are charging for the certifications, so clearly the Department of Health views these as the same thing.
The State law says that they can set a fee for searching of their records, but there is nothing on the DOH website about ordering a vault copy or how much it would cost.
I understand - but while the odds may be against the courts hearing it, I think it’s helpful for people to fight to get the info released. I suspect there’s even more hidden than something on his BC (in that I think he’s a hustler, not anyone genuine or transparent).
If the full truth about him (whatever that might be) can get out there for all to see, as facts and not hypotheses, then whatever happens later will be more successful, imo. Because even if a significant number of states enact verification rules (and I hope they do!), there will still be people who will fight it. That number may be reduced if the facts have been released - in other words, they may not fight for BO to be on those ballots despite those rules, if they have been able to learn more about him.
Until the first meltdown.....
Like?
It's like smelling supper, when you're hungry, isn't it?
Motivations are irrelevant. “Want”. “Want”. “Want”. Who cares what anyone “wants”?
Either Obama is a natural born citizen or not. He refuses to release the documentation that would prove that he is or is not. This is a fact.
Rather than release the documentation that would cost $25 or less, Obama choses to frustrate this legitimate request for proof of natural born status with expensive lawyers. A citizen doesn't need to be a nutter to see something suspicious with Obama’s response. This too is a fact.
The “Stillbirthers” defending Obama attack the motivations of the defenders of the Constitution because they certainly haven't any *facts* to base their arguments.
By the way the “Stillbirthers” defending Obama must be mind readers if they can divine the motivations, wants, and hearts of other people.
What are you blathering about?
Show the original, not the abstract, and be done with this business, if not, then why are you bothering to quibble over “gee it wasn’t the Governor...it was the Lr Governor!!”
Is there a dimes worth of difference between the two in fact?
Both would make everything he has sold to the public about himself a lie. Never mind what it does to everything he said in that queer little book. You know the book that supposedly certifies him as a genius.
Why is Lingle being a Republican matter? The issue here is the existing, in public, Birth Certificate is a fraud, that is easy enough to clear up yet they refuse to do so.
All of the Kenya/Frank Davis/It doesn’t exist stuff is just so much chatter to me at least, show the original certificate for pete’s sake, a 14yr old cannot play little league ball if this issue arises why in the world should the President receive a pass?
Sorry - I’m feeling rather clueless why you addressed this to me.
I was asking Big_monkey why he said the governor had said Zero's BC was legitimate, when the Governor has said no such thing.
I, and others have asked him/her for a link to such a statement, and it has not been forthcoming.
You said — “Either Obama is a natural born citizen or not. He refuses to release the documentation that would prove that he is or is not. This is a fact.”
Yes, it’s a fact that he did not release the original birth certificate. And, it’s a fact that no one could make him do so, either, in a court of law. So, you have to put in *that fact* too... That’s where we are at, right now.
Thus, that means a state law making it mandatory, for someone to appear on the ballot that they have to produce specific documentation — would solve those two facts, above.
—
You then said — “Rather than release the documentation that would cost $25 or less, Obama choses to frustrate this legitimate request for proof of natural born status with expensive lawyers. A citizen doesn’t need to be a nutter to see something suspicious with Obama’s response. This too is a fact.”
Yep, it’s a fact that one does not have to be a “nutter” to want to know what is on his original birth certificate. Of course, I’ve never said that. I have even posted that very same thing, wanting to get that documentation, before the election. However, I lost on that issue, and I got outvoted on November 4th.
BUT — what does make a lot of people “nutters” (to use your own word, mind you...) — is when they say that some judge, somewhere, is going to issue an order for Obama to vacate the office of President of the United States and that judge will order a US Marshal to carry out that order and escort Obama from the White House (I’ve read in national publications that this kind of “thinking” is called “Obama Derangement Syndrome).
And another “nutter” type thinking (your words, again... mind you) — are those who say that the US Military is going to surround the White House with tanks and demand the removal of Obama from office, knowing that he’s *not really the President* and cannot give them legitimate orders. (Another situation for “Obama Derangement Syndrome”).
No..., I think that I want to see the documentation, too (and that’s not “nutters” mind you...) — but I know what *will work* to get it — and that is — enacting state laws requiring it before someone can be put on the ballot.
Now — *that* — is not “nutters”.... LOL...
Ok, sorry about that fanfan.
It’s all right.
It gets hot on these threads sometimes.
I’m with most of you.
I can’t figure out why people would question American’s right to know who their President is.
You said — “I understand - but while the odds may be against the courts hearing it, I think it’s helpful for people to fight to get the info released. I suspect there’s even more hidden than something on his BC (in that I think he’s a hustler, not anyone genuine or transparent).”
Now, here is where I could say that something is more useful than what I was pointing out that was not useful and not getting anywhere before (on previous posts).
*If* (and this is a big “if”... now...) — someone can get the information to the public, through having it validated in a court of law — that shows some damaging information on the birth certificate (whatever that information might be) — then — one would have a heyday in the next Presidential election with it. It could turn the tide of the voters in the election.
It would be useful for that purpose. But, it’s gotta be *validated* by a court of law to be *useful* in an election — because of the other side simply saying that it’s all merely allegations and nothing is “proven”. A “court” is important for the validation of the evidence.
But, mind you — I don’t think that even if something damaging is produced (even in a court of law and validated) — it’s going to result in Obama being removed from office for his present term. A court won’t do that, no matter what the evidence. I can’t see the Democrats convening an Impeachment process and trial, either. That would be a miracle if they did so, and that would be the only way to remove Obama in his present term of office.
So, it comes down to being very useful for winning the next Presidential election — mainly.
—
And lastly you were saying — “If the full truth about him (whatever that might be) can get out there for all to see, as facts and not hypotheses, then whatever happens later will be more successful, imo. Because even if a significant number of states enact verification rules (and I hope they do!), there will still be people who will fight it. That number may be reduced if the facts have been released - in other words, they may not fight for BO to be on those ballots despite those rules, if they have been able to learn more about him.
Yep, I will agree with that. In those terms, then the information would be very useful to the GOP (and winning the elections) and damaging to Obama. If it were to come out before the Congressional Elections, it could even be useful for turning a bunch of voters to the GOP side, in those elections.
NOW..., that sounds a lot more sensible than tanks surrounding the White House... LOL...
I think if we all start pointing out the junk journalism when articles like this are published, it could be very helpful.
They put all that stuff in your drivers license magnetic strip.
There’s no privacy in this country because of the socialists and corportatists, Obama needs a dose of his own medicine!
Thanks for clarifying your position. I don’t usually enter into the legal ease part of the ‘debate’ because i am not an attorney.
However, it is important to point out that these lawsuits (whether doomed to failure or not) have raised the issue in the public consciousness, which is not where Obama wanted it. He wanted to keep his BC stuff hidden from view. I think it is important to keep asking the question: “What is he hiding?” The stuff Polarik did to blow the lid on the BC posted on Obama’s website is very compelling. The fact that Obama keeps hiring legends of lawyers to avoid putting his REAL COLB out for viewing is perhaps the most compelling thing of all.
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