Posted on 12/11/2008 11:36:50 AM PST by rvoitier
This is what passes for intelligent thought on pressing issues these days?
Have you seen this?
COBURN: In 2007, GM sold 9.37 million cars worldwide. Toyota, that same year, sold 9.37 million cars worldwide. GM lost 38.7 billion. Toyota made 17.7 billion. Therein lies the problem
Well yeah, the auto companies are the unions bread and butter. It's a nice little cash cow that they've been milking and milking for years. They don't want that to end. I'm thinking the cut of union dues out of $15,000,000,000 has to be substantial.
I would think that the unions would get no monies of the loan package. Why would they need it? I don’t think a car zahr or management would go for that. Their membership is at an all time low.
Again, what are they going to do with the money?
Won't it be hard for Detroit to compete with the cars that are built in the south when the ones in the south have far less labor costs?
Where does this bailout talk end? Everyone is getting in line. I heard the gov. of OH today say the states also need to be bailed out.
We need assurances these bailouts will produce permanent positive effects and we won't be back throwing more good money after bad.
It bothers me greatly for governments to be part owner of anything. That is communism and a very dangerous slippery slope.
We have driven Chrysler mini vans for years and have never had a major repair bill. I feel a loyalty to Chrysler because of this so am bothered to see this happen.
There is nothing good about this situation.
Member wages which translate to dues is what I'm thinking.
She was better looking 20 years ago, trust me. She was a bit too stereotypically JAP for my taste. Don’t misunderstand me, I dated many Jewish women in my single days, but some personality types just didn’t mesh with my own. Speaking of which, Boxer’s remarks today remind me of this Sarah Silverman video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40qTXlNJj9s
Those numbers include the auto workers, the workers at auto suppliers. and the guys who work at the grocery stores to sell food to the others
Not true. The jobs bank is gone. They already have a two tier system in place for wages. All new people hired get paid a whole lot less. More concessions on health care.
They are going to use it to pay bills while they cut car lines sell plants and reorg. They have too many car lines. This is 2008 not 1965.
After loooking at several mini’s in the 80s we bought one too. WONDERFUL CAR and the only domestic that got a top rating from Consumer reports. I think they are toast. It is sad. At one time there was a year waiting list for a PT Cruiser in MI.
You nailed it the best. Nothing good either way.
How can that be? There are over 2 million auto workers and GM Chrisler and Ford.
How are they going to compete with the cars built in the south?
Cut costs while the unions are on their knees. Cut lines and sell only profitable cars. CUT DEALERSHIPS. I forgot that biggie last time. You have to have profitable dealerships. None are right now. Sell buildings and assets you are not using. They are working on all this.
Car Czar.
Good point
And if that's not a stark enough picture, let's consider the fact that the country just elected an administration that will make the state of Michigan look like a bastion of free-market capitalism by comparison to what this bunch intends to do.
Earlier today someone posted a list of spot-on quotes from Thomas Jefferson that painfully predict the exact situation we find ourselves in. Those who are in one way or another dependent on government, are now numerous enough and strong enough via the aid of the liberal infostructure, to swing presidential and other elections, and those people are only gonna vote for more of the same. They could not care less if the entire country tanks, so long as their personal desires and notions are pandered to.
MM (in TX)
Gee whiz,
how could I be so limp wristed and pathetic as to ask a question? (Can I keep my jump wings?)
However, while I leave the scholarship up to you, I believe that the Constitution does address things like common good, regulation of trade, and national defense. So, I'm sticking with the notion that a viable domestic auto industry is good for us.
Not to mention the fact that loaning money (gasp) is not reserved by the Constitution, it isn't denied either. Loaning money is a bunch better than giving it away.
Not to mention that a loan carries leverage that could force reorganization, rationalizing of product lines, and (hopefully) concession from the unions; all needed in order to keep any of the three in business.
Certainly not to mention that the feds had already set aside the money to force changes that were underway without "aid", some of which are unproven, and others utterly lacking infrastructure. Reallocating it would at least rationalize its use.
Another poster, without the rhetoric, cited creation of a Car Czar as sufficient to kill the idea. I'm far more inclined to concur with opposition to that unwanted authoritarianism than with your wishful thinking.
Actually it is:
Amendment 10: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
It's an old fashioned concept known as "Enumerated Powers". You might want to look into it.
(Can I keep my jump wings?)
I'm pretty sure you and I took the same Oath to "support and defend the Constitution..." I recommend you gain at least a passing familiarity with the document you swore to defend with your life.
Just a thought...
Best,
L
"...so full of conflicts of interest, pork and pure statism (snip) It would be more honest if they just nationalized the entire industry."
Yes, and Yes, thanks.
I was reading it from government point of view but what you note is beyond the beneficial leverage of forcing reorganization.
If the cost is too high, so be it, the automakers can still walk away.
I do sort of wonder about the difference between challenging a mandate and simply failing to meet it. (As an old antagonist used to say "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission")
Right, that's the problem.
if GM had no retiree pensions and health care to pay for they would do a lot better.
Right ... if the Big Three hadn't become bloated and inefficeint they'd do a lot better ...
Here's the problem Ihave with their attitude ..
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