An Ugly Attack on Mormons

article.nationalreview.com ^ | December 3, 2008 | Jonah Goldberg

[Publius804]

An Ugly Attack on Mormons

The easiest targets for an organized campaign against religious freedom of conscience.

By Jonah Goldberg

Did you catch the political ad in which two Jews ring the doorbell of a nice working-class family? They barge in and rifle through the wife’s purse and then the man’s wallet for any cash. Cackling, they smash the daughter’s piggy bank and pinch every penny. “We need it for the Wall Street bailout!” they exclaim.

No? Maybe you saw the one with the two swarthy Muslims who knock on the door of a nice Jewish family and then blow themselves up?

No? Well, then surely you saw the TV ad in which two smarmy Mormon missionaries knock on the door of an attractive lesbian couple. “Hi, we’re from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!” says the blond one with a toothy smile. “We’re here to take away your rights.” The Mormon zealots yank the couple’s wedding rings from their fingers and then tear up their marriage license.

As the thugs leave, one says to the other, “That was too easy.” His smirking comrade replies, “Yeah, what should we ban next?” The voice-over implores viewers: “Say no to a church taking over your government.”

Obviously, the first two ads are fictional because no one would dare run such anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim attacks.

The third ad, however, was real. It was broadcast throughout California on Election Day as part of the effort to rally opposition to Proposition 8, the initiative that successfully repealed the right to same-sex marriage in the state.

What was the reaction to the ad? Widespread condemnation? Scorn? Rebuke? Tepid criticism?

Nope.

The Los Angeles Times, a principled opponent of Proposition 8, ran an editorial lamenting that the “hard-hitting commercial” was too little, too late.

[af_vet_rr]

All these charges of hatred are simply a means of shutting down healthy debate - a vital component of free speech.

There's a lot more truth to that than some are willing to admit. A big part of the problem is that you had one group of people in one state pushing a lot of money into another state to influence a state proposition.

It doesn't even matter if it was Mormons - it was a group of people from one state responsible for the majority of out-of-state money involved in fighting a proposition in another state. Anytime that happens, it's going to be ugly, and you'll have people accusing others of hatred.

Hell, I'd be pissed off if some group in another state tried to get involved in any local or state elections in my state. Even if I agreed with that group, I wouldn't want them trying to influence any elections in my state. It's bad enough as it is with the various groups trying to influence the national elections.

If it's not in the US Constitution, states need to decide on their own, and not have outsiders trying to influence local or state elections or propositions.

[Elsie]

Mormons are not "Orthodox Christians" but they are most definitely Christian.

Thank GOD you are here!

I was the ONLY one SPAMMING the thread. You can take over, for my afternoon is SHOT!

[DelphiUser]

Um, where is it in the Nicene Creed that we have to insult and berate those that do not share our doctrinal beliefs?

I recite the Creed every Sunday. I remember the words “I believe....” not “You must believe....’

Guide and teach not slash and burn.

Wise words, thanks!

[Elsie]

Elie, I believe you are a very contentious person. There is nothing admirable about your anti-Mormon obsession.

broncobilly; I believe you are a very deceived person. There is nothing admirable about your anti-ELSIE obsession.

[brytlea]

You pose an interesting question. If someone believes Jesus was a great prophet but not the Son of God, are they Christian?

[Elsie]

This thread is not about dogma and should not be taken as an opportunity to debate that.

I guess if all the PRO-Mormonism folks would leave; I'd have nothing to respond to; would I?

[RobRoy]

God hates sin. He also tells us to hate sin. I think hate is a good thing when aimed at the right target.

I suppose it is like a gun. It all depends on how you use it.

[Elsie]

Mormon’s believe the following:

I posted your AoF.

Isn't THAT a true statement of what a MORMON must believe?

[netmilsmom]

>>But, if one puts their position on a forum, they should expect debate<<

Why? Because that’s what you think?

I think differently. I think that when someone posts something about a religion, be it how the gays are targeting LDS or how the Pope is wearing red shoes today, that poster should not have to defend his/her beliefs. It’s not an invition to debate. It shouldn’t be. It’s not about Dogma. Nor is it meant to be.

I can’t imagine anywhere on FR, one of the Jewish FReepers posting about the events in Israel and having to defend why Jesus is not his/her savior. It isn’t done nor should it be. The LDS and Catholics should be afforded the same luxury.

[Elsie]

BUT it is still Christ Grace that saves, but there are requirements for Grace to apply, just like mainstream Christianity.

Oh?

What are those??

The MORMON ones vs the Christian ones

[netmilsmom]

>>I guess if all the PRO-Mormonism folks would leave; I’d have nothing to respond to; would I? <<

Well, it shows your colors that’s for sure.

[RobRoy]

>>You pose an interesting question. If someone believes Jesus was a great prophet but not the Son of God, are they Christian?<<

The answer is quite simple: No.

C.S. Lewis pontificates on the point very effectively in “Mere Christianity”. The biggest problem is this: If you think a guy was a great teacher, but you do not believe he was God, yet one of the things that he taught was that he is God, is that not a bit of an intellectual conundrum for you? As lewis points out, Jesus was either God or a lunatic. He left no room to be seen as "just" a great teacher.

[Zakeet]

Mormons believe in Jesus Christ ... Mormons are not "Orthodox Christians" but they are most definitely Christian.

Muslims believe in Jesus Christ, but they aren't Christian.

Please read my responses on this thread wherein I list some of the enormous differences between Mormonism and Biblical Christianity HERE and HERE and let me know where I am mistaken.

[Elsie]

Last question is someone who believes in Jesus, but has a diff rent understanding than you do "passing themselves off" or do they really believe?

Of COURSE you guys 'really believe'!

WHO ever said you didn't??

Like I told my wife, the last time she got us lost in the woods while I was driving; "Well I believed that the last turn I made was right."

[traviskicks]

LOL

[DelphiUser]

I doubt it since I am one of the most outspoken critics of Mormon theology on this board. I've been on both sides of this issue and no one has ever threatened or persecuted a Mormon on this site. Questioned the claims of Mormonism? Well, yes certainly - that happens all the time.

When were you ever on our side of this issue? (Links please)

Neat how you identify yourself as one of the persecutors, then claim persecution is not happening.

I have been attacked on this forum, had my morals, intent parentage, intelligence etc. not just questioned, but been called a liar about what I believe, damned to hell, called a demon from the pit and been condemned in every way imaginable.

With all due respect, you are not in a position to speak on whether or not Mormons are persecuted on FR.

[colorcountry]

God hates sin. He also tells us to hate sin. I think hate is a good thing when aimed at the right target.

You are right. But what I was pointing to was the practice of charging hatred to squelch the voicing of opinions and ideas. Gays are using charges of "hatred" to make us all accept their lifestlye. Minority groups often use charges of "hatred" as a means to take advantage of our guilt. Mormons are using claims of "hatred" when there is any oppostition to their theology. This isn't what Christ meant, is it?

[RobRoy]

Actually, if one puts their views on a forum they should, in fact, expect debate. That is unless it is DU. In which case, if they disagree, the more eloquent your case the better your chances of being banned.

Debate is most of the reason for this sort of forum.

[Elsie]

Please show me where the word Trinity appears in the KJV of the Bible...

Show ME where ANY of your Temple Rites® appear in ANY of your Scriptures!

[Elsie]

Mormons believe in the Godhead which does appear there.

The GODHEAD with TWO physical bodies?