Posted on 10/11/2008 2:12:11 PM PDT by Styria
This started as a reply on a birth certificate lawsuit thread that was locked before I could hit post. (It had reposted the unsigned order draft from the lawyer.) I don't have an opinion on whether or not Obama is a natural-born citizen. I just want to address what happens if he turns out to be ineligible.
First, before the election. The primaries and conventions are over. If Obama were to be knocked out, Hillary isn't going to appear on the ballot. The definite (or practical) answer is that the Electors can vote for whoever they want—provided he is eligible to be President. But you can’t change who is on the ballot in 50 different states three weeks before the election. The whole country isn’t New Jersey. Obama will be there, but it’s the Electors people are voting for.
The other definite answer is Amendment XX, Section 3:
3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.”
This means that the lawsuit to force Obama to produce his birth certificate and prove that he is a natural-born citizen can go on past the election. In fact, we have all the way to Noon on January 20th.
It's also clear that the Vice President elect will only act as President until someone qualifies, and this is a distinction from the first sentence which does give succession in the case of death before inaugeration. Once the Electoral College is finished, any further action on electing the President goes to the House of Representatives. Per Amendment XII, the House has to choose, voting by state, from a list of the top three recipients of Electoral College votes for President. John McCain will head this list.
In spite of people saying there will be a constitutional crisis if Obama is elected (besides the ongoing problems of government overstepping its bounds), the Constitution does provide its own means of dealing with this issue. In fact, even after January 20th, Biden and a majority of the Cabinet ("or of such other body as Congress may by law provide"...) could use Amendment XXV to stab Obama in the back by sending a letter to Congress stating Zero is unable to discharge the powers and duties of the office (Amendment XII includes the words "or other constitutional disability"), and force him to prove his eligibility there.
The last one is probably not likely, but the games available to deal with this issue are wide and varied. Do not underestimate the powers Congress has under the Constitution to deal with any crisis on succession to the Presidency.
Obama’s mother is a US citizen at his birth. Therefore he is a citizen. End of story.
A requested ping for you. =)
You have put a lot of research and thought into this. What amazes me the most is how the drafters of the Constitution thought of absolutely every contingency. How I wish we had such brilliant people available today. Thanks for the post.
This post is about the Constitution and it’s processes. Obama’s citizenship is hypothetical.
How about John McCain just winning and making this a mute point? Obama fans will go nuts if he’s disqualified. Maybe we just ought to keep Bush awhile longer.
“Obama’s mother is a US citizen at his birth. Therefore he is a citizen. End of story.”
Sorry but the US Constitution does not back up your claim.
A person must have been born in the United States of America as in on our soil. The reports are he wasn’t and that is why he hides his birth cert.
Good God I am so sick of typing this to people who do the “end of story” bit and they are so incredibly wrong it’s embarrassing for them to be so dang confident.
No, it’s not that simple.
Please research the definition of “citizen” and “natural born citizen” and then get back to amending your story.
Sorry, I’m so snarky.
It seems on every thread there is someone who posts the exact same phrase as you and they are wrong.
But it’s even more annoying when they are definite and not even humble enough to ask about it.
I agree with you 100%.
end of story.....
Outstanding summary! Copied to hard drive. Will ping some folks here tomorrow. FRegards!
Not end of story. To be qualified for the Presidency one must be a "natural born" citizen. That is something more than a citizen. Arnold Schwartzenegger is a citizen.
NOT TRUE! The law was different in 1961 when Obama was born.....(where ever he was born!) Do your homework or shut up!
The mother was underage and the citizenship was determined by the father. obama is not an American citizen based on the stonewalling of his lawyers. The certificate shown on the internet is also false. It’s a photoshopped copy of his sister’s, Maya.
If at any point it is determined that Obama is not a US citizen he loses his position are POTUS. Of course there will be a court fight and it would go to the USSC.
Riots will be the rule of the day. That is one reson they are saying if he is cheated out of the position.
Kenya did not recognize dual citizenship so Obama was never a n.b. citizen due to the fact he was born in Kenya!
NOT TRUE! The law was different in 1961 when Obama was born.....(where ever he was born!) Do your homework or shut up!
But exceptions were made for ‘natural birth’ in specific statutes for children of US public servants — and military.
I would love for McCain to win outright, but the Obama fans would go nuts over that too.
The amendment states that the VP elect will take the office while a suitable replacement is found for the big spot.
Is it completely out of the realm of possibilities that Obama would be found ineligible after a win in November, and Hillary comes along to steal the presidency without a problem?
I seem to recall that the Congress would vote on a presidential appointment in this case. If Hillary stood no chance of being elected by the popular vote, perhaps she’ll be injected by Congressional fiat. Am I off my rocker?
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