Posted on 08/26/2008 10:22:55 PM PDT by Kevmo
Then I gather “pooftered” isn’t a verb, as it was used. And the use of it doesn’t really add meaning to what was being said, so it was sloppy, wasted slang.
Berg should have filed a class action suit instead.
And, as usual, my blog is not mentioned
Then what is this 'anchor baby' thing I keep reading about?
________________________________
"Obama is actually an Indonesian citizen, and may have no US citizenship, he used an Indonesian Passport for International travel as an adult.Why did he not obtain a US passport for such travel?"
This pops up here all the time but never with documentation - got any? If it exists I'd really like to see it.
Thanks - cool new different seach site - appreciation bump! ;-)
“CephaloRectomy”
Is that anything like a rectal craniotomy?
I suppose it depends upon who you ask.
He declared Indonesian citizenship by using an Indonesian passport after reaching his 18th birthday. He did not apply for nor receive a US passport because he did not have a US certificate of birth.One was created for him out of whole cloth. Japanese folks do it in Hawaii and have done for generations.
Obama is not a US citizen. He took the citizenship from his adoptive father, and acted on that.
And he likely falsified the info. to obtain a Hawaiian CB.
Obama is a pychopomp*.
The born in the USA crowd are over simplistic about the law. I doubt that Obama was "naturally born" in the USA.
He was likely born outside the USA. That is why the serial number on his CB from Hawaii will appear redacted in every copy of it that you will see.He likely has the serial number of a dead person.
* conductor of souls to the afterworld, he has the CB serial of a dead person.That is why it is redacted, because a search using he number will turn up the name of its original owner.
And, as usual, my blog is not mentioned
***I thought I was seeing dozens of references to your blog. Just add “Polarik” to the search term and you’ll see.
I find this thing to be a gold mine. There’s some stuff I’d like to ask for your comment on. Ferinstance, your interactions with Dr. Krawetz.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/stop-presses-obama-natural-born-us-citizen-or-he-update
Stop the Presses: Obama is a Natural Born US Citizen!...or is he? (Update)
by Sondra | August 18, 2008 at 03:16 pm | 705 views | 12 comments
Update: The TexasDarlin website, so instrumental in bringing to light the rumors and suppositions about Barack Obama’s birth certificate, has been discontinued as of August 22 for the Democratic convention. “As for the blogging future, I will evaluate that after the convention/ vacation,” wrote TexasDarlin, leading followers to fear that her work is over.
Carrying on the fight is Philip J. Berg, Esq., who has filed a federal lawsuit “Requesting Obama be Removed as a Candidate as he does not meet the Qualifications for President.” Thus, while much more attention has been given to Obama’s birthplace overall, Barack now joins John McCain in being sued over the issue by a concerned citizen.
During an interview on the radio show Coast to Coast with host Ian Punnit, Berg told details of an unnamed expert’s analysis that proved forgery. These details included whose birth certificate Obama is really using, as well as threats against the expert involving a rabbit, which pointed to Techdude. More about Techdude below.
The original story follows:
What if we mistakenly elect somebody president when that person isn’t even a natural born citizen—making them constitutionally ineligible for the job?
What if that person were born in another country but a law passed AFTER they were born appeared to make them a natural born citizen but still didn’t?
Let’s call this person John S. McCain.
Not so terrible?
Then, what if our new president wouldn’t reveal his actual place of birth and merely said he was born here? Or what if he were sort of born here, but thousands of miles from the real here, on an island that was just barely a state at the time…and being born there still didn’t meet requirements for the office?
We’ll call this person Barack H. Obama, with the emphasis on the H. Or M., for his (potentially) real middle name, Muhammad.
The coincidence of two such people being presumptively nominated by both major parties in the same year could only be a conspiracy. Both parties’ choices should have been real Americans… like Hillary Clinton and Ron Paul …and may yet be, if dedicated PUMA bloggers, Photoshop addicts and FreeRepublic.com Republicans have their way.
(PUMA started out meaning Party Unity My Ass, the name Hillary backers took on after the Democrats cut their candidate’s Michigan and Florida votes in half. It has since morphed into People UNITED Means Action, according to SusanUnPC at NoQuarterUSA.net. With divisions forming among Clinton’s remaining followers, SusanUnPC added, “There needs to be a little less ‘ass’ and a lot more unity.”)
According to Snopes, natural born citizenhood has never been defined by the constitution, the Supreme Court or Congress. This year’s dissidents could provide some clarity, even if their objections turn out to be completely unfounded.
A suit against Panama Canal Zone native McCain was thrown out in July, when US District Court judge Joseph La Plante told Nashua, New Hampshire voter Fred Hollander, “There may be people who can make this argument but, Mr. Hollander, I don’t think you can do so.”
He did compliment Republican Hollander for the case he mounted as his own lawyer. “I really admire your commitment to the Constitution. You have been amazingly resourceful, your pleadings have made good arguments, and you managed to get a birth certificate of John McCain which I had never seen before.”
The case against Obama so far exists mainly on the Internet, where no detail is too infinitesimal or off-topic to escape scrutiny by bloggers whose multi-layered theories are not about to go away before the convention.
Or after.
First stop for every pixel, every participle, every (suspected) passport that might remotely get Obama bumped from the ticket has been TexasDarlin.wordpress.com, with AtlasShrugs2000.typepad.com, run by Republican Pamela Geller, not far behind.
It did not escape TexasDarlin’s eagle ear that Obama backer Claire McKaskill introduced legislation to make sure that opponent McCain is counted as natural born. Mused TD, ”Did McCaskill and Obama sponsor the Resolution for John McCain because they realize that Obama himself has a problem?...Was Barack Obama born outside the US?“
He said he was born in Hawaii. But Barrack Sr.’s home country, Kenya, sounded more likely. Even a Canadian birth, close to Mercer Island, Washington, where mom Ann went to high school and suspiciously took Barack when he was only weeks old, would make him foreign.
Obama’s published Certification of Live Birth made the not-quite-American likelihood even stronger, in the minds of those who thought it likely to begin with. Wasn’t it…kind of…funny looking?
[Note: For the most part, credentials given here are those self-reported by the experts.]
Computer programmer and web designer Polarik scrutinized the certificates from Obama’s site, the Daily Kos and real Hawaiian Certifications, down to the pixel, and concluded that those purporting to be Obama’s “NEVER WERE true, original copies, and if anyone tells you anything different, that they are flat-out wrong. Period. Exclamation point.fake.”
Board certified forensic computer examiner and private eye Techdude compared COLBs from 2001 to 2008, and, in his ATLAS EXCLUSIVE: FINAL REPORT, declared the Kos copy “a horrible forgery.”
Polarik’s evidence included such observations as: “… if you had a graphics program that could enlarge ‘HUSSEIN,’ up to pixel level, the smallest unit of the image that can be seen, and look just at the pixels in the vertical space between the double ‘S,’ you will see only FOUR (4) PIXELS, out of about 120 pixels, that are colored any shade of green.”
Techdude noticed that, ”Among [several “repeating inconsistencies” in the KOS COLB] is a ‘weak line’ which repeats once after every second bold line and a slightly downward curving end point where a straight line should end.”
Experts on opposing blogs claimed, as Dr. Neal Krawetz did, “There is no indication of image manipulation:”
Krawetz, a Ph.D. in Computer Science and author of two computer books, challenged Polarik’s analysis because “he focuses on pixel-based qualitative analysis rather than quantitative analysis and technical evaluation methods. Moreover, he uses no terms common to the field.”
Republican software system engineer AJStrata, who’s anti-Obama but even more opposed to “The Cult of the COLB,” pointed out that the methods employed by Techdude “are supposed to be used to detect image manipulation WITHIN an image…. What did Techdud [AJ’s preferred spelling] do? To my shock he took three different images and tried to compare across them!”
Right wing Freepers were surprised neither by Obama’s subterfuge nor by his getting away with it:
“The media and the left worship him, literally worship him,” commented Freeper brownsfan, while zerosix’s take on the controversy was even scarier: “I terribly fear that this is a red herring dragged out (can you say DemocRAT Dirty Tricks) just to get lots of conservatives chomping and running with it ala Michelle Obama on tape calling caucasians ‘whitey,’ only to be proved wrong.”
No sooner did analyst Polarik remind readers that he was first to discover “more than a few” of Techdude’s “exclusive” findings regarding the forgery—and the first person ever to reduce “Certification of Live Birth” to the letters “COLB”—than a new discovery made the entire controversy irrelevant.
Or did it?
Lori Starfelt, a PUMA documentary producer, came across an announcement in the Honolulu Sunday Advertiser, dated August 13, 1961. On August 4, Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama had given birth to a son.
In conversations with both the Advertiser and the Department of Vital Statistics, Starfelt discovered, “This is not a paid announcement that his grandmother could arrange. This is information that comes from Vital Records…it isn’t a late registration birth certificate - we know that for certain. It’s filed at the Department of Vital Statistics the first week after his birth.”
It looked as though Obama had fulfilled the qualification for office. But looks, as every PUMA knows, can be deceiving.
TexasDarlin commenter LB scoffed, “First we were supposed to believe a phony colb and now we’re supposed to believe a newspaper clipping?”
Commenter Rachel thought commenter Philip_B’s “’born at sea’ theory makes the best sense.” Since Ann and new baby Barack were known to have been in Washington state soon after his birth, she might have taken a ship from Hawaii while (very) pregnant and not made it to the mainland before he was born. Reasoned Rachel, “I’m sure briths [sic] at sea happened often enough for Hawaii to have a way of dealing with it.”
Both Polarik and Techdude stuck to their expert opinions and the analyses of the COLB continued, with greater fervor and more SHOCKING!!! revelations than ever. The dudes were on a roll, and even if Starfelt hadn’t been hoodwinked and Ann did give birth in Hawaii, other scenarios could be brought in to support the findings that Obama’s birth certificate was faked, like that stepfather Lolo Soetoro allegedly adopted the boy and the “Obama” birth certificate was replaced with one bearing his alleged new name.
It was not long till Techdude, who appeared to be the more accomplished of TexasDarlin’s experts, figured out that Obama had used a real Certification of Birth as the background for his faked one, and he could even tell, from some markings accidentally left during the forgery, who the real Hawaiian baby was. At first he just hinted that it was someone known…and female…and he wanted to give the perpetrator a chance to come forward and admit guilt before revealing the truth himself.
Techdude told his methods for uncovering the startling evidence and challenged readers to see if they could come up with the same result. He even gave an incentive: The first person to corroborate his findings would win a free trip to Las Vegas. And someone did! Graphic artist KG also made out, among the bits of original letters that remained, the name of the original certificate’s owner. Maya Soetoro! Barack’s sister! Who was born in Indonesia!
Techdude himself verified KG’s findings, KG asked that the prize money be donated to pay down Hillary’s debt and everybody was happy. All the technicalities would soon be explained in depth by Techdude, TexasDarlin promised, hopefully including why someone born in Indonesia would have a real Hawaiian birth certificate while that person’s own brother, who was born in Hawaii, did not. TexasDarlin commenter Joe didn’t appear to know why, but he determined that, ” If his sister does have an illegal BC from Hawaii, then his mother committed a crime and both he and his sister are involved in a conspiracy to cover it up…”
After KG’s corroboration, how could anybody deny that Obama’s COLB was a fake or that Techdude was what he said he was, an “Active member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners, the American College of Forensic Examiners, Computer Forensics Volunteer Project, a Member of Federal Bureau of Investigation’s InfraGard program” and more?
Anybody but the malcontents who stepped up their cries that Techdude was a fraud.
Ph.D. Krawetz charged that, while Polarik had a “gross misunderstanding of even the most basic image analysis,” Techdude “intentionally manipulated the data so that it would support his theory.”
Criticized Krawetz, “It is generally hard to do color enhancement incorrectly, yet TechDude did just that...” And where Techdude saw remnants of letters, to Krawetz, “The artifacts he is highlighting are due to his drawing program and not due to anything stored in the JPEG file… I should point out that even while squinting and blurring my eyes, I do not see the letters he claims are present…”
PUMA though he is, children’s book illustrator Joseph Cannon wasn’t any more congratulatory: “No Photoshop professional found [Techdude’s] details comprehensible… Although he has presented many jpg files to the public…none of them show Maya Sotero’s [sic] name on the COLB… If a forger covers up type with a chunk of background pattern — that, my friends, is it. Those old pixels are gone forever.” Cannon concluded that what Techdude saw were artifacts from JPEG compression.
The first point in NASA and DoD Computer Systems expert AJ Strata’s refutation of Techdude’s discovery was that “This entire theory lies on the assumption Hawaii would issue a COLB for someone not born there.”
After delving into Techdude’s technical analysis that the border of the Obama 2007 COLB copy does not match that of a 2002 COLB, AJ concluded, “Conveniently these low quality crappy images make it impossible to check Techdud’s eyesight… I still have high resolution and I cannot find any of the…anomalies Techdud claims are there.”
The bad reviews kept coming.
Longtime COLB critic Koyaan compared Techdude’s orginal Final Report for Atlas Shrugs with his post-final report—and with prize winner KG’s description of where he found Maya’s name on the certificate. Looking at the three different spots where each placed the supposedly original text, Koyaan asked, “So just where the hell was the original printing located on this damn thing? Where Techdude said it was in his earlier Atlas Shrugs report? Where he said it was in his more recent TexasDarlin report? Or where he verifies KG says it was?... By verifying KG’s result, Techdude is directly contradicting his own claims.”
Digital forensics examiner L. E. Daniel said the COLB was saved in Photoshop and therefore not original. While some leapt at this as a confirmation that it was forged, Daniel clarified, “…my point was that since the document was opened and saved by Photoshop, you have no way of knowing what the source document was.”
Of Techdude specifically, he wrote, “…his analysis is certainly questionable, if not downright ridiculous…” Daniel was “…amazed…by the sheer number of related posts that have picked this up as some kind of forensically proven fact.”
The unity part of People UNITED Means Action—and like-thinking Republicans—started falling apart. Not that truebelievers changed their minds. Still, the balance began to shift when Techdude let on that his first name was Adam. That, along with his resume claims, led Neal Krawetz to believe that he was Adam Fink, an actual forensic investigator. That assumption ended when Krawetz heard from Fink himself that he was not Techdude. Krawetz updated his blog to reflect that ”TechDude is impersonating a respected investigator” and called Fink “yet another victim of TechDude’s deception.”
Techdude’s full explanation of his analysis was still not posted when he…just…quit. Atlas Shrugs ran his message: “My family is now being harassed and threatened. She [his wife] is absolutely terrified and is afraid to leave the house or even go to work. She is begging me to stop and I am going to listen to her. I cannot endanger my family any further.”
It was the second time he reported harassment. The first time involved “some asshat [who] decided to track me down and vandalize my car and hang a dead mutilated rabbit from my front door in a lame attempt to intimidate me from proceeding with releasing any details of my analysis.”
At the second harassment report, a lot of COLB debunker debunkers felt like Koyaan commenter patgund: “WOW! Wonder if “TechDude” is starting to feel some heat or worry that he might be found out.”
Pamela Geller stated firmly, “I stand behind his analysis. The COLB is the fake, not ‘techdude’. I will not confirm or deny whether the speculation as to his real identity is or is not correct. I will say that I checked him out. His business, email, phone, llc .... to the best of my ability. He is who he said he is… Should an official, non-partisan digital, forensic examiner show ‘tecdude’s’ [sic] analysis to be flawed, I will print that too.” She linked to his original analysis.
TexasDarlin said her goodbyes to Techdude, too, and deleted his entries “because they cannot be verified in their current unfinished form. Should he complete the work in the future, I will re-activate his posts... I believe him to be a real forensics expert because his email communication came from a user and domain name that I checked out. I cannot reveal more without revealing his identity, which I promised to protect. But I did vet him to the best of my ability. [Update: we also cross-checked his phone number].”
The biggest ray of hope after that was TexasDarlin’s *BREAKING* Barry Soetoro’s Birth Certificate in Republican Hands [UPDATE]. Two sources (one of them Larry Johnson, promoter of the Michelle “whitey” tape ) independently told TexasD that Republicans had Obama’s real birth certificate—the one where he’s named Barry Soetoro after he’s adopted by his stepfather, in their (as yet unproven) theory.
Not everyone was filled with glee. Republican Pamela Geller countered, “This ‘Republican Operative’ meme is being spread by Hillary’s camp… This has Clintonostra written all over it. But she wants/needs clean hands should she manage to wrest the nomination away from the Obama.” Still, Geller found it “just a tad peculiar that Obama would stop his relentless campaign for Presidency to go to .......Hawaii, home of the COLB” for his August vacation. “I hope we have a stake-out at the office of public records,” apparently to prevent Obama from personally destroying incriminating evidence.
Semi-forgotten Polarik could be found at FreeRepublic.com with an “I Did It My Way” wrap up of his role in proving the COLB false. He vowed not to name names (Techdude) but said, “…you will learn why their work fell by the wayside, and why mine stood the test of time and weathered all attempts to discredit it... When the image first appeared on the Daily Kos…, I was the first person to brand it as a forgery through empirical research… I never did it for glory or media attention… I never said “Wait for my final report,” and then turned tail and hide… I’m pleased to say that I was right all along, and that I thoroughly debunked this forgery and the counterarguments of my detractors…”
It was a good enough explanation for the Freepers, and the guy was smart enough that he never did “find any evidence that Maya’s COLB was used to make the Kos image.” Instead, he chose a COLB already posted on the Internet as the one he believed was altered.
As the forgery-believers splinter, one of their dreams is coming true. The MSM is taking notice. CBSNews.com’s HorseRace blogger David S. Morgan called the forgery theory ridiculous. On the other hand, Jerome Corsi, author of “The Obama Nation” told Fox & Friends’ Steve Doocy, “The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website… There’s been a good analysis of it on the Internet, and it’s been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop.”
Even if the believers stop believing the COLB was forged, there’s plenty more stuff out there to believe in. A birth has been discovered of a Barack Hussein Muhamed Obama on August 23, 1961 in Canada, one of the places the PUMAs always suspected. Nobody knows where in Canada yet. Some are betting on British Columbia.
They’re not bothered that PUMA Lori Starfelt verified the August 13, 1961 announcement of the birth of a son to Barack Hussein Obama and his wife on August 4 in the Honolulu Advertiser. Obviously, the Honolulu Obama baby was conceived to pacify gullible Americans and make them think the Canadian Obama was a natural born US citizen, forty-seven years later.
Here’s the interaction between you and the other experts. We might all want to copy this stuff in case their website gets taken down.
I have to confess that the back & forth is above my head, as I have pointed out before with this very website.
When you write your book you’ll need to explain things very clearly, using lots of pictures and keeping the issues at a level that normal people can get a grasp on it. Otherwise it just starts to look like experts chattering away & hand waving.
The Birth of a Conspiracy
http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/202-The-Birth-of-a-Conspiracy.html
Dr. Neal Krawetz
His mother was a US citizen and presuming he was born in the US, he is automatically a birthright [natural born] citizen of this country. No need to make a declaration. And he can hold dual citizenship.
He declared Indonesian citizenship by using an Indonesian passport after reaching his 18th birthday. He did not apply for nor receive a US passport because he did not have a US certificate of birth. One was created for him out of whole cloth. Japanese folks do it in Hawaii and have done for generations.
Do you have any proof to support that assertion? We do know that he presently holds a US passport, which is ipso facto proof of citizenship.
Obama is not a US citizen. He took the citizenship from his adoptive father, and acted on that. And he likely falsified the info. to obtain a Hawaiian CB.
Speculation without proof.
Here’s another two articles I’d like to ask for your comment on. From Taylor Marsh.
The Swiftboating of Barack Obama: The Birth Certificate Saga
Guest post by Patrick McKinnion
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=28214
July
Around the start of July, “TexasDarlin” starts to question not just the COLB, but Sen. Obama’s citizenship. She has a guest author, “Judah Benjamin”, who “NoQuarter” claims is a “historian and former journalist”. “Judah Benjamin” later states this is not his real name, but he took it because the “original Judah Phillip Benjamin was the most complex case of Multiple Nationality and Allegiance I could think of.”. The original Judah P. Benjamin was a former U.S. Senator from Louisiana, and later Confederate Attorney General, Secretary of War, and Secretary of State, before exiling himself from the United States and settling in England.
Juah Benjamin’s initial claim is that Sen. Obama either has dual-citizenship (US/Kenya) though his father or lost his US citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian citizen. He starts to claim there may be a second certificate for a “Barry Soetoro” and that if he was adopted by his mother’s husband, then he lost his US citizenship. One does not lose their “native born” citizenship as a child, even if both parents renounced their US citizenship. There’s no record Stanley Ann Soetoro ever renounced her US citizenship, and even if Barack Obama had been adopted, he would have had to renounce his US citizenship as an adult to lose it.
Later he tries the argument is that someone who has by birth one than one citizenship is ineligible to be POTUS due to “divided loyalties”. Again, this argument is a load of tripe, since up until recently US law didn’t even recognize dual citizenship, and only started to because other countries do. Basically Mr. Benjamin states that the operative qualification to be President is Article II of the US Constitution
The argument he makes is that a dual citizen is the same as a naturalized citizen and is therefore NOT a “Natural Born Citizen”, even if they were born on US soil. He later compares three of the people who ran for President:
Sen. McCain - was born in the US Canal Zone and has possible Panamanian citizenship which was voided when he joined the US Navy.
Gov. Richardson - was born in the US of Mexican parents and thus has duel US/Mexican citizenship. Quote: “Governor Richardson probably is Eligible to be President of Mexico but not POTUS” (does this kinda smack of racism to anyone other than me??)
Sen. Obama - The smoking gun he claims here is from the “fight the smears” website, which cites the 14th amendment to prove Sen. Obama’s citizenship. (That post-Civil War amendment was originally used to first intended to secure rights for former slaves,)
Mr. Benjamin claims that either Sen. Obama is either “A UK and Colonies Subject”, a “Kenyan Citizen”, an “Indonesian Citizen”, or otherwise “born outside the United States, for example in Canada?” In any case, he believes that Sen. Obama, like Gov. Richardson, doesn’t meet the qualifications in Article II.
Isn’t it funny that the two half-white / half-minorities are the only ones that “Judah Benjamin” down-checks as “ineligible”
“Judah Benjamin” at this point starts making a laundry-list of demands, including “All Indonesian Identity Documents, Indonesian Adoption Papers and an Indonesian Passport”, “A Canadian Birth Certificate”, “All Documentation in the US, Indonesia and, possibly Canada, relative to Stanley Ann Dunham and Maya Kassandra Soetoro-Ng, because their Records are relevant to, and intimately connected with the Senator”, “A Public Appearance, on National TV, on Oath, before the Attorney General of the United States of America by Senator Barack Hussein Obama Jr”,
Let me point out something here. It doesn’t matter if Sen. Obama presents these things or not. Why? Because it will NEVER be enough Even if he were to do all these things, the PUMAs and their allies would just find something else more and more and more unreasonable to demand. That in a nutshell is what PUMA is trying to do here - set the bar higher and higher, make more and more unreasonable and outrageous remands, and then claim “proof” when they’re not met. It’s a very typical “moving the goalposts” tactic.
Meanwhile, “TexasDarlin” makes the sudden announcement that (gasp!) she has”personally come to the conclusion recently that Obama’s COLB was probably real, although its handling has been incredibly sloppy” She blames Obama and starts to hammer more on the supposed citizenship questions. She later has “Polarik” on as a guest blogger, with an article in which the title pretty much sums it up “OBAMA’S FAKE BIRTH CERTIFICATE, why I’m right and they’re wrong (V. 3)”. Obviously one can’t argue with scholarship like that, eh?
At this point, Dr. Neal Krawetz reviewed the work of the people who have analysied the COLBs and claimed they were fake. His conclusion? “Unfortunately, there is not much I can say to the people who believe this image has been manipulated, except “you’re wrong.” There is no indication of image manipulation.” Later on, Dr. Krawetz does a follow up, where he reveals not only that the “image experts” don’t know what they’re talking about, but goes into what he observed about “Ron Polarik”:
“Even though he says he is an expert, he focuses on pixel-based qualitative analysis rather than quantitative analysis and technical evaluation methods. Moreover, he uses no terms common to the field. This reminds me of the Wikipedia scandal where an author claimed to be a professor of theology, yet made it all up.”
He ends with “TexasDarlin should have never promoted the conspiracy when her “experts” were unverified. And upon learning of the error, she should have recanted the accusation rather than continue to promote a baseless conspiracy.”
Middle of July, “TexasDarlin” discusses a Congressional resolution declaring Sen. John McCain “a natural born citizen”. Why does this concern “TexasDarlin”?? Because it was introduced by Claire McCaskill, “a major Obama supporter in Congress” according to TexasDarlin. She also cites “Contrarian Commentary”, YET another right-wing blog. This one is by so-called “legendary Chicago muckraker” Andy Martin, who compared Obama to Hitler with such gems as:
“Hitler’s troubled family life and psyche? Adolph meet Barack. Philandering father Barack-from-Kenya impregnates impressionable girl from Kansas-Washington-Hawaii, most likely without benefit of clergy. Father moves on and leaves a wound in his son’s life. The son reverses field and receives “dreams from his father,” instead of nightmares. Fantasy reigns.”
Andy Martin also calls Sen. Obama’s father a “Rake”, and his mother “promiscuous”, sayng “Is this Obama’s idea of ‘family values?” and “Shameful values is more like it”
“TexasDarlin” brings in another so-called “Forensics Expert”, “TechDude”. His report started with the line “The following report was written for TD/NQ by Techdude, who hurried to complete it after his tires were slashed and a mutilated rabbit was found hanging by his front door.”. So who is this “TechDude”?? He was an anonymous “Tech Expert” on Atlas Shrugs. Israel Insider picts it up too. As for the rabbit, well we only have TechDude’s claim on this, and it was around the same time that the founder at PUMA PAC made a simular unproven claim about so-called death threats
Hmmmm......On one hand, we have a known expert on computer forensics saying the “Cult of the COLB” is wrong in their claims. On the other hand, we have now three anonymous bloggers who’s claims keep getting far-fetched.
“TexasDarlin” found an article in a Hawaiian paper (the Sunday Advertiser), dated 12 August 1961, stating “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, a 6084 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, August 4.” She then said that “Barack Obama was likely born in Honolulu, the hospital still unknown”. At this point, “TexasDarlin” went mostly from arguing the COLB was a forgery, (though she still believes it was), to asking questions about his citizenship. Later “TexasDarlin” and “Judah Benjamin” claim that: “Barack Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, his Indonesian step-father”and that “Barry Soetoro” (what they claim as Sen. Obams’s “real” name) “acquired Indonesian citizenship as a result of that adoption AND that he (Soetoro/Obama) may STILL hold Indonesian citizenship today.”
Later, “TexasDarlin” posts to “NoQuarter” is that it’s “solved - at least in (her) mind”. And the solution is a doozy, combining all the past info into one big fritatta of wingnut lunacy. She’s managed to claim that the COLB IS forged, his original name is Barry, there are at least three birth certificates, he has dual-citizenship though his father, Indonesian citizenship though Lolo Soetoro, (she manages to work in the famous “went to school as a Muslim” slur into that one as well), he changed his name at 18 to Barack, oh, and he STILL might have been born in Canada after all.
“Polarik” tries to defend his work to Dr. Neal Krawetz. And gets his rear handed to him publically as Dr. Krawetz expains why he’s wrong and ends with him telling “Polarik” that “Your theory and indisputable evidence is laughable and does not hold up to even a precursory glance.” Real professional 1, Internet “professional” zero.
As a result, July pulled to a close, in a spun cloud of bigger and bigger and more wild-assed speculation. It would be hysterical if it wasn’t so pathetic. Like a little kid caught with their hand in the cookie jar, the lie they spin grows bigger and bigger and wilder and wilder until it’s obvious the only people willing to believe it are the other little kids who want to believe it.
To follow this story further, see part 1, part 3, 4, 5 and 6, and Updates, at Yes to Democracy No to Puma.
Obama’s Birth Certificate - Fake or Myth? (Part 5)
When I first started writing this, I had three parts to it. But changes and updates suddenly came so fast and furious that I ended up expanding it, with no end in sight.
3 August - Dr. Neal Krawetz responds to my question about the amount of experience “Texas Darlin” claims for “Polarik” and “Techdude”. Bear in mind he’s an academic, and hesitant to use definitives in sentences. That being said, he states that both of them are frauds. He also points out: “Texas Darlin is nothing more than a conspiracy freak. Moreover, the account may be more than one person. In fact, Texas Darlin has contradicted herself between posting on multiple occasions.”
3 August “Techdude” releases his “exclusive report”. The 1st ten paragraphs are attacking his critics, along with the throw-away comment “As a heads up to the guilty parties – the names and dates have already been restored – as has the fact the owner is a female born in the 70’s. That is all that will be revealed publicly for now. Besides if I turn up in a ditch someplace the information is already in a few 3rd party hands and they will just release it in my place.” Wow, martyr much??
So he’s making the claim that he’s supposely recovered the “original owners” information on the COLB - but is withholding that information to “allow the forgers to come clean”. Why at this point do I get the feeling that he’s trying to forge his own version of the COLB and present that as the “smoking gun”??
The breakdown on his article:
10 paragraphs attacking his critics
1 on “Security Borders”
3 on Printers
1 on Scanners
15 on “Erased Security Features”
7 on the “Artifacts of Previous Owner”
8 paragraphs once again attacking his critics.
2 paragraphs on his “credentials”
So, 47 paragraphs, and 20 of them are attacks on critics and his supposed credentials. At one point he says “Besides my full name and contact information will be released shortly once the entire set of facts has been released to the public. This way if I end up at the bottom of a construction site someplace in NJ the world will still have all the information I was going to provide.”, trying to claim it’s a security reason rather than the most obvious - i.e. he’s blowing smoke out his butt.
I don’t believe anyone’s out to get him. I don’t believe in vandalized cars or mutilated bunnies. I don’t believe that local law enforcement is out to get him. NONE of what he says is credible, and this “sooper sekret spy” crapola doesn’t make it any the more credible. And I find the whole “I have evidence that I’m not going to show yet” thing very questionable. You have the evidence, then SHOW IT! Submit it to proper peer review. If you’re a member of the organizations you claim, then obviously you should have a way for other trained professionals to review your information and go “Okay, that’s credible” or “Wow, that’s a lot of horse manure”. The “I’ve got a secret I won’t tell” thing does nothing but undermine your case.
Not to mention the cheap potshot of “everyone involved who actually does matter has already vetted my background so you will have to forgive me if I really do not give a rat’s keester if some unemployed garbage man from Wisconsin or people who’s only claim to fame is they can write bible stories on a blog can not check my references.” You know, I think it’s more “the people who are willing to believe my claims have vetted my background, and the rest scare me”.
Now, again, the State of Hawaii has CONFIRMED the COLB as real. The only people who believe it’s a forgery are PUMA cranks and *some* right-wing cranks.
3 August - Not content to be left out of the fun Pamela Geller at “Atlas Shrugs” has a Special from “TechDude” that the original owner of the COLB in question is *gasp* female. Mind you, this was already claimed in the “TexasDarlin” post, but this former Free Republic “Conservative Babe of the Week” couldn’t be left out of the fun. Not surprising, as the stuff I’m finding out about Ms. Geller tends to make her out to be a real piece of work.
Oh, and like “TexasDarlin”, she’s pimping the supposed credentials of “TechDude”. Same problem as “TexasDarlin”, you can claim to be a “member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners, American College of Forensic Examiners, The International Society of Forensic Computer Examiners, International Information Systems Forensics Association - the list goes on” all you want. But the only proof we have of ANY of it is the claims of “TechDude”, “TexasDarlin”, and Pamela Geller. Though I will give Ms. Geller complements for the fact that, unlike the other two, she’s at least willing to sign her own name to her writings and own her words as a result.
4 August - I was examining the claims of Pamela Geller and “TexasDarlin” about “TechDude’s” supposed credentials. And happened to come across the code of ethics for one of the organizations. Which got me to looking further. For example, the International Society of Forensic Computer Examiners, (which “TechDude” claims to be a member) shows theirCode of Ethics. In this, a member promises, among other things to:
* Maintain the utmost objectivity in all forensic examinations and accurately present findings.
and not:
* Withhold any evidence that would tend to distort the truth.
* Express an opinion on the guilt or innocence of any party.
* Show bias or prejudice in findings or examinations.
Indeed, And yet what we’re seeing with “TechDude’s” supposed research is nothing but bias, prejudice, distortion, and anything but objectivity. And he’s certainly been expressing an opinion on the guilt or innocence of the Obama campaign as well.
The claim is also that he’s a member of the Association of Cetified Fraud Examiners. I found a code of ethics , that stated “A Certified Fraud Examiner, in conducting examinations, will obtain evidence or other documentation to establish a reasonable basis for any opinion rendered. No opinion shall be expressed regarding the guilt or innocence of any person or
party.”, has well as “A Certified Fraud Examiner will reveal all material matters discovered during the course of an examination which, if omitted,
could cause a distortion of the facts.” Funny, didn’t “TechDude” just admit he was withholding the supposed name of the person he claimed was on the COLB, as well as other information??
There is also a claim that he’s a member of the American College of Forensic Examiners, who has their creed as well.
I believe one could argue successfully that, if “TechDude” was indeed a member of these organizations, complaints could be filed against him charging him with muliple violations of their codes of ethics and ethical creeds.
To recap: Sen. Obama’s COLB has been verified by the state of Hawaii. Some people are still trying to prove otherwise and claim there’s this huge cover up. This is called “paranoia”
Others are trying to use another tactic, claiming he not not a “proper” US citizen. Said definition of “proper” varies from day to day, and is usually coupled with a ever-increasing list of demands.
“TexasDarlin” and the “experts” she keeps finding are losing what little credibility they had then the COLB was proven to be legit. There is NO credibility left for them to claim anything else. Yet they keep trying to flog that very dead horse.
Currently?? “Polarik” has left his blog for the time being, still claiming it’s all true and showing up on “TexasDarlin’s” site.
“TechDude” is still pluggin at it though He claimed on 11 July that his first name was “Adam” and to be the”owner and primary forensic examiner of a computer forensic science laboratory”, and lists a stream of professional organizations he supposedly belongs to. Of course, without knowing his last name (which he refuses to give out due to “too many nut cases in the world”), we have no way of knowing if this is true or bulldada. And in some of those cases, he’s in violation of their ethical and conduct codes.
He also claims to have received training from the Treasury Department, Department of Homeland Security, FEMA, and the FBI, and believes he has evidence that the local law enforcement was behind the bunny incident.
Pamela Geller at “Atlas Shrugs” gushes, saying “I prefer to call him a Randian or in Geller terms,the ideal man.” I think that the term they’re actually looking for is “Complete and total nutcase” because he certain sounds to anyone outside the PUMA echo chambers and conspiracy cranks to be a few french fries short of a happy meal.
And “TexasDarlin” ? Still posting at her blog and “NoQuarter”, throwing anything she can against the wall and praying that something sticks.
Posted by Patrick McKinnion at 06:38 PM | Permalink
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Here’s part 6 of the anti-puma set of articles I’d like to ask you to comment upon.
http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/obamas-birth—3.html
Obama’s Birth Certificate - Fake or Myth? (Part 6 - and Final)
(Note: When I wrote this, I didn’t realize it was going to be so involved - or take up so much time. I had the luck to jump in about the point the pond got riled up again. I’ll occasionally post updates from this point, but quite frankly I’d like to discuss other things. I think we’ve presented enough evidence by now to show that “TexasDarlin” and the rest of the wingnuts contributing to this myth are either knowingly pulling a smear campaign, or are so far around the bend that they’re twisting everything to try and make their bet theory fit. In either case, it’s only some PUMAs and some tinfoil hat brigade cranks that are believing it - everyone else thinks it’s a joke.)
4 August - “TechDude” makes an offer of a free trip to Vegas if someone can produce the supposed “original name” on the COLB. I suspect he knows his challenge is safe, because there IS no such “original name”. (Betcha a bag of M&M’s that it will “just happen” to be either Maya Soetoro, Sen. Obama’s half-sister, or her daughter, also born in Hawaii)
What’s funny is that “TechDude kinda coyly hints about is name being “Adam”, saying “A 3rd party finding the same information - particularly one who does not know me from Adam (teehee) - would be the final nail in the COLB’s coffin.” I do suspect he’s right when he says “I am not some sort of genius”.
It really sets off my bullshit detectors when something as important as they CLAIM it is is being treated like some sort of parlor game. The only reason I can think of why they’re acting coy and treating it as a game is that it IS a game to them.
4 August - “TechDude” suffers a 1-2 bodyslam.
The first is from “Koyaan”, who does an analysis of “TechDude’s” exclusive and comments that the “evidence” he sites is actually all over the graphic in question, looking more like artifact noise than a “smoking gun”. At this point, the “smoking gun” is looking more like a leaky water-pistol.
“What’s interesting is that the length of this “very small vertical line” is 8 exactly pixels. What makes this interesting is that the JPEG algorithm processes an image in 8 pixel by 8 pixel blocks.
So is this really a remnant of a line? Well, if it is, then using the same criteria, there are a number of other remnants of small vertical lines very near to the small vertical line that Techdude points out.
Why are these excluded?
The short answer is that they have to be excluded in order for Techdude to make his case.”
Soon after that, Dr. Neal Krawetz weighs in. And by “weigh in” I mean “rips to tiny pieces”. In an article called “BAD SCIENCE: HOW NOT TO DO IMAGE ANALYSIS”, Dr. Krawetz looks at “TechDude’s” methods, claims, and even claimed credentials. And he’s not happy.
“Intentionally misleading research offends me. Real researchers strive to create the best work possible and are willing to have it put up to peer-reviewed scrutiny. They list their methods and provide enough information for other researchers to replicate the experiment. And good science should be able to draw the same conclusion with different analysis methods. In contrast, fake researchers intentionally doctor their data to support their theories. They do not provide their methods and their conclusions are not repeatable. While it is important to understand how real research is done, it is equally important to analyze and understand fake research.”
Some highlights of Dr. Krawetz’s findings:
Conclusion - “(TechDude’s) analysis combines a selective bias with misinterpreted artifacts and false data. His analysis is a work of fiction.”
Critics - “Since (TechDude) won’t give us his name, can he provide the names of his professional reference who are not also anonymous? Saying “some people have vetted me” is like saying “My mother says I’m smart”. To be properly vetted, we need professional references and not vigorous handwaving with anonymous citations.”
Credentials - “...assuming he has the credentials as he stated, I strongly recommend that the courts review each of the cases where TechDude has played any role. If he has shown this kind of biased, misleading, and false analysis in other cases, then each of those cases should be declared a mistrial.”
Dr. Krawetz makes a VERY valid point. If “TechDude” is so serious about his efforts, then he needs to establish his bona fides and submit his evidence for peer review. The fact he (and “TexasDarlin”, et al) are playing games like “trip to Vegas” and only dribbling out bits and pieces tends to lead people to suspect one thing....
The fraud is not on the part of the COLB, but the people promoting this increasingly wild-assed claim.
4 August - Okay, remember my comment that I would bet money that the “mystery name” supposedly found on the COLB that “TechDude” claims would be Sen. Obama’s half-sister Maya Soetoro??
Well, “TexasDarlin” somehow mysteriously feels the need to reprint a post from 19 July because of it’s “possible relevance to current stories” (supposely some “conflicting information” about Maya’s birthdate - which, amazingly enough, happens to be in the time frame “TechDude” claims he “found” on the COLB.)
Hmmmm.....that bet is looking more and more likely.
4 August - Well, someone on Craigslist is fishing too....
“Date: 2008-08-04, 9:34AM HST
Trying to find anyone that can clarify what their parent’s race is listed as on their Hawaiian birth certificate or Certificate of birth from the early 60s.
• Location: honolulu
• it’s NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 782834334”
UPDATE! Thanks to Sandy, who posted in comments that they were the one who made the Craigslist post. Quote: “I am the person who posted the CL thing in Honolulu. I saw all of the birth certificate crap and wanted to see if someone could finalize what the Father’s Race would say.” So, no, not fishing. Thanks again!)
4 August - And over in the formerly sane “NoQuarter” Larry Johnson himself weighs in on “TechDude’s” supposed “mystery name”. The fact his guess is ALSO Maya Soetoro should come as NO surprise......
Also it’s interesting to note that Larry Johnson is now using “Barack “Barry Soetero” Obama” as well. Echo chamber anyone?
5 August - Damn. I hate being right sometimes.
Just as I predicted, “TechDude’s” supposed “find” in the COLB was indeed Maya Kassandra Soetoro. The “attack the entire family” strategy is now in play. And it’s really freaking transparent - someone “just happened” to discover it and “just decided” to tell “TechDude” to use the Vegas money to “ help retire Hillary’s debt”. And “TexasDarlin” is gushing over her supposed exclusive, telling her rabid readers that “Judah Benjamin, our resident historian and researcher, will be discussing these questions in the coming days.”
And the comments are very much in feeding on their own mode - PUMA Joesph Cannon of Cannonfire dared question “TechDude”, and the politest comment he got back was:
“Joseph Cannon’s marching orders from his beloved Messiah is to try to discredit any attempt to get to the truth behind his COLB by claiming that he could not reproduce the results put out by TD or to try to attack the messenger by attacking his use of a pseudonym. Watch him turn up the volume subsequently and become even more repetitive and boring in hopes that if repeated long enough, his accusations will become more believable.”
They are very, very much pimping the “Barry Soetoro” line, claiming “He did not want his legal name and Indonesian identity to be known.”. You know, this could be useful - if the person who’s telling you the latest Obama tale calls him “Barry Soetoro”, you know for sure they’re a complete and total fruitcake and not to bother trying anything like logic and common sense.
And of course, the formerly sane “NoQuarter’ is just orgasming with delight over this suppposed story.
As I said, it was transparently obvious who the “mysterious name” was going to be. Never mind “TechDude” could have claimed to have discovered “Mouse, Mickey” on that COLB, it would have been JUST AS VALID as anything else he found. But this way they can try for a double-header - attack Sen. Obama’s sister AND pretend she’s another woman that Sen. Obama “has thrown under the bus”.
The people pimping this myth are either delusional, or a pack of liars. I used to think delusional. Now, I’m completely convinced they’re a pack of liars. The sad part is the audience that is so desperate to believe their lies.
And with that comment, I’m wrapping up part 6 of what started to be a 3 part series. I may do the occasional update, but for the most part I’m done with what I set out to do.
It’s been interesting, but there’s something I discovered along the way:
Everytime I came out of researching the PUMA sites pimping this conspiracy, I feel like I just waded though an open sewer. A VERY dirty open sewer, filled with very dirty people.
They’re not the type of internet nutter you can point at and laugh. After a while, you discover it’s the type of internet nutter that makes you more and more angry. Doesn’t matter if you’re left-wing or right-wing, (there are right-wing blogs taking the Birth Certificate nutters apart as well).
It’s the type of insanity and unclean feel one feels when reading the “Westboro Baptist Church” or simular website. There’s not much difference between the Fred Phelps of the world and the “TexasDarlin” types. The only difference is what the focus of their hatred is.
And it’s a type of insanity that threatens to draw you into it. Until the idea of fighting it becomes as much an act of insanity as believing it.
I choose not to fall into that well of crazy. The people who want to believe it WILL believe it, despite all the evidence you find to prove them otherwise. I’ve proved to my satisfaction - and others - that there’s absolutely no credible proof or evidence to support their theory, and I will leave them to their insanity.
Posted by Patrick McKinnion at 04:00 AM | Permalink
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Obama’s mother’s original Social Security Number Application
http://webofdeception.com/obamamother’sssapplication.html
Posted by: Robert Lewis | August 05, 2008 at 08:52 AM
Great findings Patrick. also, great findings R. lewis.
Posted by: Christina | August 05, 2008 at 09:04 AM
Thank you for following along this far! I enjoyed reading your reconstructions.
And I agree...those folks have lost it. The comments section is full of crazy. I wonder if anyone is going to tell them that...MAYA WAS BORN IN INDONESIA. So that means she doesn’t have a Hawaiian birth certificate, no matter how much they wish she did.
Posted by: Jenna | August 05, 2008 at 11:32 AM
It’s a very amateurish HOAX. Obama’s sister’s name couldn’t possibly be seen as a rough outline in his COLB.
It’s impossible for black text on a coloured background in a JPEG to leave a vague outline of the the letters — either the real letters or any previously masked ones because JPEGS have “artifacts” (random looking coloured pixels in a checkerboard rectangle around text which extend up to about 8 pixels from the text to the background - thus PREVENTING any sort of ‘outline’ of letters from ever being visible.
If anyone doubts this - just take a JPEG with text on it and then greatly enlarge it and see for yourself. If the artifacts and the edge of the checkerboard rectangle cannot be seen, just increase the contrast until it can be.
Ray
[Copied from my post on NoQuarter]
Posted by: Ray | August 05, 2008 at 11:38 AM
“And I agree...those folks have lost it. The comments section is full of crazy. I wonder if anyone is going to tell them that...MAYA WAS BORN IN INDONESIA. So that means she doesn’t have a Hawaiian birth certificate, no matter how much they wish she did.”
Oh, I know that. That being said, I expect them to have another “breaking story” about “why did Obama’s sister need to fake her birth certificate??” and claiming it has something to do with the Indonesian citizenship they claim Sen. Obama has.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | August 05, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Ray -
“It’s a very amateurish HOAX. Obama’s sister’s name couldn’t possibly be seen as a rough outline in his COLB.”
Expect to be banned from the formerly sane “NoQuarter” - or ripped apart by a pack of angry attack PUMAs. Look at how they’re trying to smear Dr. Krawetz for pointing out that “TechDude” has no proof and incredibly sloppy research.
*You* know it’s a hoax. *I* know it’s a hoax. My neighbor’s yippy toy poodle and my daughter’s cabbage patch kid know it’s a hoax. Anyone with an IQ greater than a vat of plankton knows it’s a hoax.
It won’t stop the “true believers”. Their need to believe this and so justify their hatred is so powerful that if it comes to rejecting this myth and rejecting the truth, they’ll reject the truth. Even if it means creating more and more outrageous conspiracy theories to “prove” the myth.
Last night I compared “TexasDarlin” and the like to groups like “Westboro Baptist Church” and Fred Phelps. The focus of their irrational hatred is different - but the OBSESSION to hate something that much is still the same.
This isn’t about Democrat or Republican. It’s not about right-wing or left-wing. It’s not about Sen. Clinton (no matter what their excuses are). It’s not even about the truth. It’s about destroying this illusion they’ve created that they think is Sen. Obama, and everything and everybody associated with him because of that illusion.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | August 05, 2008 at 11:49 AM
The best part is the disclaimer:
DISCLAIMER/COPYRIGHT: This article presents draft and preliminary viewpoints and information, all of which is subject to change. It is intended to be strictly theoretical and hypothetical, in an effort to examine and vet the background, qualifications, and eligibility for U.S. President of a serious candidate and public figure who is standing for that office. The assertions made herein are believed to be true by the author based on good-faith efforts to research the facts related to a public figure running for public office. In the event that documentation deemed to be reliable by the author comes to the author’s attention disproving one or more of the assertions made herein, corrections will be published.
Nothing herein should be quoted, cited, copied, or otherwise used or shared in whole or part without providing a link to the original source on the No Quarter or TexasDarlin blog, and acknowledging the author, TexasDarlin, which is a pseudonym. Nothing in this article should be used in a way that misrepresents the author’s meanings.
...yep, they’re living in fantasy camp.
Posted by: Jeff | August 05, 2008 at 12:35 PM
I am the person who posted the CL thing in Honolulu. I saw all of the birth certificate crap and wanted to see if someone could finalize what the Father’s Race would say.
There had been some previous argument that it would have said Negro or Black, not African. So I was just trying to see if someone would once and for all clarify it so it would nix that argument. Funny enough I did get a response but it was someone screaming that I was a racist and trying to oppress the black man.
I am technically a “puma” but only because I want a fair convention. I just want the open roll call and then once the nomination is squared away openly, I will fall in line with whomever the nominee is name to be. I enjoy reading your stuff because I feel like you represent the facts for the most part. I also have a blog that I attempt to do the same. Often the Puma sites are riddled with random conspiracy “stories” that are supposed to be “breaking news” the next day that “will finish Obama.” It is silly. Sadly, I get grouped with those people.
Just wanted to fess up as the CL poster. I wasn’t fishing to support Texas Darlin’s theory, but instead to end the Father’s Race question.
Posted by: sandy | August 05, 2008 at 01:21 PM
p.s. Did you see their comments about the “Big Dawg” aka Bill Clinton being aware of the faux COLB? Supposedly his comment about anyone who is qualified under the constitution means he knows Obama’s COLB is not legit. haha
Posted by: Sandy | August 05, 2008 at 01:25 PM
Sandy -
“Just wanted to fess up as the CL poster. I wasn’t fishing to support Texas Darlin’s theory, but instead to end the Father’s Race question.”
Thanks! I’ll edit it to reflect that news.
- Patrick
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | August 05, 2008 at 01:31 PM
They really need some kind of counseling, don’t they?
Posted by: Ripley | August 05, 2008 at 02:04 PM
Jeff re: The best part is the disclaimer
I still like my version better:
I don’t have any evidence, so I am reduced to making shit up. Some of my theoreticals are pretty lame, so don’t be surprised if I change my story as soon as someone questions my logic - or rather, lack thereof. But that’s okay, because I believe very strongly that the things I’ve made up - in my mind - are actually true. If someone offers evidence that debunks the root of my argument - say, if the Hawaii Department of Health verifies that the birth certificate on Obama’s website is genuine - I will ignore it. Everyone knows they’re in the tank for him anyway. Oh, and I might delete this entire post with no warning if ya’ll make fun of me too much.
Posted by: Wonk | August 05, 2008 at 06:24 PM
I’m now trying to visualise how all of this is going to end. Will there be a riot at Texasdarlin if TechDUD claims a dog got into the asylum and ate all of his COLB homework?
There’s a good post that has just come in on this blog where someone pointed out that other presidents didn’t need to produce their COLB’s.
http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/210-Bad-Science-How-Not-To-Do-Image-Analysis.html
Ray
Posted by: Ray_in_Aus | August 05, 2008 at 10:00 PM
“I’m now trying to visualise how all of this is going to end. Will there be a riot at Texasdarlin if TechDUD claims a dog got into the asylum and ate all of his COLB homework?”
I think I liked “Obama’s mother born at Roswell base in 1947” and “Techdude’s ‘dead rabbit’ was the Easter Bunny!” as well :-)
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | August 05, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Dear yes to democracy denizens,
Cheers.
I appreciate the opportunity to comment on the points and allegations that are raised in this blog, in particular because a blog named “yes to democracy” should be like a second home to me.
I am not qualified to comment upon the technical issues related to the birth certificate. I see them as a distraction from the more significant issues related to choosing someone worthy to be president in these ever-increasingly difficult times. To each their own.
I am qualified, however, to comment on the intellectual and moral quality of the assertions that are made on this site about the denizens of No Quarter. If anything, my survey of your denizen’s views upon this topic, let alone the reputed Dr. Krawetz’s commentary, will demonstrate that we are all imperfect vessels who would do well to consider our own sins before we cast stones. Doing so does not prohibit us from throwing, nonetheless.
Koyaan offers technical info I cannot comment upon. I liked that Ray gave NQ the cut and paste.
The reputed [ lists.immunitysec.com/pipermail/ dailydave/2007-April/004276.html ] Dr. Krawetz says, “An anonymous racist who goes by the nickname “Texas Darlin”, and two anonymous “researchers” named Polarik and TechDude.” Interestingly, he cannot pin point who this person is, so he provides some possibilities. Even more interestingly, the person he lists who could be construed as having said something racist, is not a possible candidate. To think Harriet Christian is Texas Darlin’ is equivalent to thinking Barack Obama is a sleeper cell Muslim.
The point to take here is that Dr. Krawetz uses the term racist so freely that he loses his claim to moral authority because he has abandoned the field upon which he can make the claim about the motivations of others. If you say people are racists, then you’d better have evidence because the words are not only slanderous, but they are the type of ad hominem rhetoric that undermines civil social intercourse. The state of the Democratic party after the false accusations of racism made by people, such as James Clyburn, stands as evidence.
This does not, however, undermine Dr. Krawetz’s technical conclusions. It might point to him falsely reifying the conclusions of his employers, however.
As to the comments, I agree as to the curiousness of the Indonesian sister’s birth certificate being in Hawaii.
With regard to the blog, it’s nice that Patrick McKinnon recognizes that only some PUMAs are enticed by the birth certificate line. Curiously, Patrick becomes illogical when he states:
“The people pimping this myth are either delusional, or a pack of liars. I used to think delusional. Now, I’m completely convinced they’re a pack of liars. The sad part is the audience that is so desperate to believe their lies.”
Though it is the case that people can be both delusional and liars, people can only be liars about things upon which they are not delusional. True believers are delusional, even if they promulgate a truth, if they do so without knowledge. People who desperately believe lies feed a delusion.
“Everytime I came out of researching the PUMA sites pimping this conspiracy, I feel like I just waded though an open sewer. A VERY dirty open sewer, filled with very dirty people.”
Was Patrick McKinnon in a dirty sewer? He certainly was not in a well-editted collective stream of consciousness, but, after all, democracy is messy. It contains all the scents, sounds, touches, tastes, and sights of an open air market of the mind. Voltaire and Churchill said as much and more, to name two people who respect the importance of allowing differing perspectives, no matter how repugnant they might be. If you want clean, make the USA like Singapore. I like NQ partially because I don’t like some of what I find there. “Insanity” and “well of crazy”. Those are thoughts of people who think that the motivations of others cannot possibly have justification and, therefore, that they do not have to seek understanding, as Jessica Stern notes in Terror in the Name of God. If we think that the 9/11 jihadis are madmen, then we cannot think they have reasons behind their actions and, therefore, there is no reason for us to examine our actions.
People are passionately involved in this election for good reason. It’s hard to step out of our perspectives and see the views of others.
You have chosen to engage a refugee blog of which I am a member. Because many of us are refugees from Democratic blogs, we are diverse in our perspectives. Obama supporters assaulted many people in many ways. Accordingly, the ways and means we employ when encountering Obama supporters differ with our previous experiences.
Welcome to your association with No Quarter. I look forward to your responses.
Yours,
Steven
Posted by: steven Mather | August 06, 2008 at 12:42 AM
“You have chosen to engage a refugee blog of which I am a member. Because many of us are refugees from Democratic blogs, we are diverse in our perspectives. Obama supporters assaulted many people in many ways. Accordingly, the ways and means we employ when encountering Obama supporters differ with our previous experiences.
Welcome to your association with No Quarter. I look forward to your responses.”
I say the “formerly sane No Quarter” for a reason.
I used to enjoy it, having enjoyed Larry Johnson when he was doing the “ask the spy guy” bits on the Stephanie Miller show. I liked the way he was supporting Valerie Plame as well.
That was then. Now, No Quarter is a cesspool. The sane people ran off, and the ones that are left are all feeding Larry’s obsessive hatred of Sen. Obama. The No Quarter I knew is dead. What remains is a twisted zombie where dissent is squashed, deviation from the party line is not allowed, and every new slander or attack is carefully nurtured in an echo chamber.
Neither campaign - either Sen. Clinton’s campaign OR Sen. Obama’s campaign, has clean hands. Supporters on both sides did and said things that did the person they supported no honour at all.
You say “Obama supporters assaulted many people in many ways”. It is JUST as accurate to say that “Clinton supporters assaulted many people in many ways. Accordingly, the ways and means we employ when encountering Clinton supporters differ with our previous experiences.”
You say it’s full of “refugees from Democratic blogs”, let me tell you I know of several “Democratic blogs” that Obama supporters were forced out because of the terrible way Clinton supporters treated them. So don’t even go there.
Neither side has their hands clean.
That being said, I cannot see how anyone can look at “No Quarter”, (or any of the PUMA sites, and think for even a microsecond that the stuff that is spewed there against Sen. Obama does Sen. CLINTON any favours. Those people are not supporters, they are “supporters”, because the constant lies, slanders, slurs, insults, and general contempt towards Sen. Obama slimes, defames, and spits in the face of everything Sen. Clinton stands for.
Every foul word, every slander, every speck of hatred there, or any of the PUMA sites, reflects badly not just on those who speak those lies, but casts dark and bitter shadows on Sen. Clinton as well. To her credit and honor, she has spoken out against the PUMAs that spew hatred in her name. She’s told people if they support her, they need to get behind her in supporting Sen. Obama.
PUMAs do NOT support Sen. Clinton. If they did, they wouldn’t be going against everything she stands for.
Sen. Clinton deserved a better campaign than she got. She doesn’t deserve to be slimed, maligned, or mistreated. Not by the press, not by the opposition, and especially NOT by people who claim to support her.
She does not deserve what PUMA has done in her name.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | August 06, 2008 at 01:06 AM
Oh, and as for your above link, you’re talking about Gobbles Security, the hackers who developed anti-piracy rootkits for the RIAA and tend to release “oh, hey, we found your bugs” without vendor notification first? The ones who basically act like street theatre in the world of computer security?
Yeah, basically completely unreliable sources.
Posted by: Patrick McKinnion | August 06, 2008 at 01:13 AM
Dear Patrick,
Good comments. As to the last one, it was the first thing I saw about Dr. Krawetz, so despite my better judgment (knowing I was not able to judge the worth of their claims), I thought it fun to add. Oops. One for you.
It was nasty on the net. I think the nastiness you encounter at NQ is an artifact of its refugee status. It is also an artifact of the Obama supporters who come to attack, the Republicans who like to stir the pot, and the frontier environment of the web.
Furthermore, I think rational, moral people can have good reason to be very concerned about what Obama does and does not bring as a candidate, much the same as many Obama supporters thought about Hillary, though some of these concerns were only parroted, debunked Rove talking points.
I believe that the disenfranchised Democrats who are PUMAs have a solid case for not backing the party line, due to a variety of different poor procedural decisions, which I base on my research in microsociology. If the group makes decisions that are contrary to the will or individual best interest of all members without applying a process that is equally respectful of all members, while being oriented towards their common goals, then those who are disenfrhanchised by the process are not obligated to follow the decision. This echoes Rousseau in his Social Contract (1762). In fact, depending upon how egregious the decision is, members of the group have an obligation to overturn the decision, if they do not want to sacrifice the group’s reason for existence, which is its common goals. Think Boston Tea Party. No taxation (decision) without representation (fair process). Why should we follow the King’s will when it so clearly works against our best interests?
The bad procedural decisions were magnified by the other ugliness (that you refer to) that came from places within and outside of the campaigns, which made people much more sensitive to slights, which made fair process even more important. Process fell to expediency. Ergo, PUMA.
If it is shown to be the case that enough significant caucus fraud occurred, and we recognize that the rules committee very selectively applied the rules with regard to who was sanctioned and how, then it reasonable to say that PUMAs epitomize what Hillary Clinton stands for, and not the contrary as you suggest.
What fun. Thank you for the indulgence.
SM
Posted by: Steven Mather | August 06, 2008 at 02:36 AM
Its argument, and a darn good one, given the array of "manipulated" documents.Why else would they be manipulated, just for "fun"?
LoweringtheBar's posting the August 22nd TRO denial as news on August 25th is horribly misleading about the status of Berg's case!
Personally, I do not know what the status of Berg's case is at the moment. But I do know what happened on Friday, because I heard his interview with Roger Hedgecock.
Berg filed his petition against Obama, the DNC, the FEC, and other parties for a Temporary Restraining Order to prevent the DNC from nominating him until his eligibility could be sorted out.
The federal judge told Berg he would be happy to hear the case, but to come back after papers had been served to all of the parties.
Berg returned to his office, and told Hedgecock on Aug. 22nd that he was working with people all across the country, and they were serving papers to all of the parties involved.
It was not the case that the judge denied the TRO because he deemed it without merit; the judge has not decided one way or the other as to the arguments of the case; his denial was, I am told, standard operating procedure -- get lawyers representing all the parties assembled, and then judge the issues.
The most recent news should be posted at Berg's website for the lawsuit:
http://www.obamacrimes.com
and currently all they have are news stories and interviews up to Aug. 25th.
Hence, I assume that the serving of papers is still underway. I am holding onto a thin sliver of hope that action might still take place before Thursday evening.
But I am expecting that Berg's lawsuit may morph from a request for a TRO into a request that Obama's nomination be removed.
In which case, the Democratic candidate would be Joe Biden.
Obama may have been trying to tell us something when he introduced Biden as "the next president of the United States."
I don't mean in terms of prescience; I just mean that Obama may be aware that any investigation will prove him to be ineligible to run; hence Biden will be the Dem's hopeful "next president."
I wonder whom he would choose as a candidate for Veep? There would be a lot of pressure for a Biden / Hillary ticket; and he would need a lot of clout to choose anyone else.
If anyone has any knowledge about Berg's progress in the case, please let us know.
I would also like to know whether anyone has seen or heard Hillary delegates in Denver talking about the lawsuit in TV, radio, or print media.
(pinging folks who have recently posted Certifigate threads, fishing for news)
presuming he was born in the US,
***You’re such a clymer. Obviously, this ENTIRE brouhaha is focused on the possibility that he was NOT born in the US. Your postings are those of a provocateur.
Possibility? Where are the facts? You can dream up anything you want, but it means batsh*t unless you can prove it. We do know that there is a contemperanous birth announcement in an Hawaiian paper. We do know that Obama has a US passport, which is ipso facto proof of citizenship. In order to receive one, you have to prove that you are indeed a citizen. How did Obama do it?
Your postings are those of a conspiracy nut.
My wife is a citizen with a U.S. Passport. But she was born in Taiwan. Demanding proof at the stage of data collection is a requirement no one can meet, so just STFU.
Do you have proof of this?
and presuming he was born in the US,>>>>>>>>>>>>
Why are you presuming that?
Proof without Speculation?
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