Russia says has control of South Ossetia capital

Reuters (excerpt) ^ | August 9, 2008

[HAL9000]

Excerpt -

GORI, Georgia, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Russia said it had driven Georgian forces from the capital of South Ossetia on Saturday as part of an operation to force Georgia to accept peace in its breakaway region.

"Tactical groups have fully liberated Tskhinvali from the Georgian military and have started pushing Georgian units beyond the zone of peacekeepers responsibility," Tass quoted Ground Forces commander Vladimir Boldyrev as saying.

~ snip ~

[LibertyRocks]

I’m sorry, but if Russia goes on and attack the Ukraine as well, then I really, really hope that the US doesn’t sit back and just watch... I don’t think we should be sitting back and just watching Russia take back Georgia either - not after what their alliance in the WOT has meant to us (and what Russia’s alliance with China, Iran, Venezuela, etc... has done to us as well...).

General Comment:
I personally find the accusations of being anti-Russian, and anti-Slavic on this thread to be completely ridiculous. There is a big difference in “hating” someone simply because of their DNA, versus hating their government, and it’s policies. It’s also kind of ironic (seeing as a lot of people here in the US have Slavic ancestry) to say that we all hate “ourselves”.

It struck me as rather ironic that these Russian apologists(operatives) that are posting pro-Russia support here are using such a tired old Marxist/Communist/Socialist propaganda tool as crying racism... After all, it’s working so well for Obama, why not trot it out again after all these years. I’m sure that when the US objected to the heavy-handed USSR the leaders were busy telling the people in the bread lines that we just “hated them” and that’s why you’re all standing in line waiting for stale bread and toilet paper. It’s not like Mother Russia can do anything wrong... Oh, no... It’s those evil Americans who cause all of this grief - I’m glad we’ve got one less troll on these threads though.

[ex-Texan]

You ought to have hit the link I provided. I'm not apologizing to dschapin or RusIvan for their pro-Putin attitudes . . . The facts are clear: Russia invaded Georgia . . . Not vice versa.

Reuters: Georgia's National Security Council accused Russian troops on Saturday of conducting"ethnic cleansing" in separatist South Ossetia, saying pulling out Georgian forces from the region would lead to more violence.

Asked whether Georgia had information that Russian forces were involved in ethnic cleansing, Kakha Lomaia, the National Security Council secretary, told a conference call:

"No doubt about that. Villages that fell under Russian invasion, those villages are being cleaned out. ... Pulling out our troops would lead to more ethnic cleansing by Russian troops."

After that Reuters report came out: Both sides are accusing the other Ergo they both are probably killing innocents to gain tactical advantage.

But Russia invaded Georgia !

[ex-Texan]

"Meanwhile, the rest of the world concentrates on Beach Volleyball in the pollution cesspool of Beijing . . .

Bravo ! Kudos to you !

[Centurion2000]

Georgia has proved itself an ally of the United States. OUR Marines were bombed at that base too.

Source? Please show us any article that shows that US troops have been hurt by Russian bombers.

[neutronsgalore]

“Nice. Throw one of the US’ staunchest allies under the bus.

I feel like I’m timewarped back to 1941.”

They are our “staunch” ally because they want us to defend them against Russia. They wouldn’t give a crap about us otherwise.

[neutronsgalore]

“Good luck with that.

How about we say there will be snow in Kuwait tonight?”

And that’s the case because we continue to be Europe’s nanny when we don’t need to. They have the full capability to defend themselves and Georgia. But they want to use the money they save on defense to fund their socialist welfare system. Real Americans don’t defend socialism.

[elfman2]

““Peaceful Muslims?” Some kind of bizarre joke especially in reference to the heinous Turks. NO Muslims are peaceful unless they are militarily and economically crushed.”

Kook nonsense....

Come up for a breath of air from WND, Jihad Watch and other group-think sites and read this. http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/07/the-bin-ladens.php

If you doubt the source, look up Michael Trotten’s work.

[Bokababe]

"I’m amazed by the amount of racism towards Russians here. We don’t have a dog in this fight between Russia and Georgia. It’s basicaly no different than two Scandinavian countries duking it out."

Thank you! Couldn't have said it better myself.

The last thing we need to do is to start taking sides in this one!

[Mariner]

"Georgia is not getting along with South Ossetia. Here’s some Wikipedia info:"

Just because Georgia has troops in Iraq doesn't mean they are not the bad guys here...depending on your point of view.

The people of South Ossettia declared independence from Georgia around 1990 and the weak govt of Georgia has been unable to reclaim the region. However, they HAVE been able to starve the region in hopes of the submission that never came.

Just like the Serbs and Kosovo, this fight depends on your point of view. And the point of view of the Russians is that they are doing a great service freeing the Ossettians from Georgian oppression.

Right next door (MAYBE 200 miles, maybe less) is Chechnya (Mostly Muslim)...and 100 miles south of that is Azerbaijan (mostly Muslim) then further south is Iran...Turkey to the West...Syria and Iraq south-west.

The Russians have LEGITIMATE security interests there, whether we agree with it or not.

[dschapin]

I am pretty sure that Georgia started this last round of fighting by shelling and then attacking the provincial capital of S. Ossatia and in the process killing several Russian soldiers who were serving as peacekeepers in the breakaway region. Russia is likely to totally over-react and lose any more high ground that she had. However, she did not initiate this latest fight. Or if she did that information has yet to come out. As to the casualty figures, I was responding to someones claim that the Russian’s had killed 1,500 civilians. This was incorect because even in the article they linked it was clear that 1,500 was the number of civilians that the Russians and S. Ossations said had been killed. I have also read in other articles that the Russians and S. Ossations claimed that these civilians (or actually 1,400 of them) had been killed in the original Georgian assault on the provincial capital. So, to post a link to an article were the Russians claimed that 1,500 civilians had been killed and then to say that this showed that the Russians were killing civilains was not accurate.

[Freemeorkillme]

"Tactical groups have fully liberated Tskhinvali from the Georgian military and have started pushing Georgian units beyond the zone of peacekeepers responsibility,"

Liberate? Make it sound like a major response to a dug in enemy in an urban-like city capital.

Here's a good description of what Tskhinvali is really like and a little bit on South Ossetia itself:

[snip]Whenever someone starts telling us about shelling in Tskhinvali, it is important to keep in mind exactly what Tskhinvali is. It is not a city somewhere in the middle of a republic that is being fired upon by saboteurs. On three sides, Tskhinvali is surrounded by Georgian villages. The edge of Tskhinvali is a military outpost. South Ossetian forces fire from there into the Georgian villages, and the Georgians respond with fire of their own. To help keep Georgian fire from hitting civilians in the city, all the South Ossetians would have to do is move their military base forward a couple hundred meters.

But, of course, it is a fundamental principle of terrorists the world over -- set up firing points in civilian areas and then when your enemy fires on you, you gleefully parade the bodies of your own children in front of the television cameras. Kokoity's terrorists are following this same principle. If South Ossetia can in any way be considered a state, it must be considered a terrorist state.

When we are told about "peaceful civilians" in South Ossetia, we must keep in mind that the situation there is similar to that in Palestinian refugee camps. South Ossetia, like the Palestinian Liberation Organization before it, is not a state or an ethos or a territory. It is a peculiar form of mutated government in which residents have been turned into militarized refugees. It is a quasi-armed force that is not allowed by the authorities to occupy itself with anything other than war -- a situation that gives the authorities absolute power and absolute control over the money at its disposal. It is a place where the hysteria of this disfigured population is the primary means of filling the authorities' personal coffers.

South Ossetia Crisis Could Be Russia's Chance To Defeat Siloviki

[Freemeorkillme]

Georgia has proved itself an ally of the United States. OUR Marines were bombed at that base too.

Yes, please provide information to this statement or immediately disavow the statement as false conjecture.

[Freemeorkillme]

SkyPilot said:

Georgia has proved itself an ally of the United States. OUR Marines were bombed at that base too.

Me: Yes, please provide information to this statement or immediately disavow the statement as false conjecture.

[SkyPilot]

Source?

Please show us any article that shows that US troops have been hurt by Russian bombers.

You know damn well from the news reports that the Marines were very fortunate - and although they WERE bombed, none were hurt. Your choice of language and demands of proof are laughable.

The facts are irrefutable - US Marines were attacked at the base they were stationed.

Marines and Georgians move to the field [Marines near the base bombed by Russia today]

. By your pathetic argument - none were hurt - so it didn't happen.

Step off.

Over 2,000 civilians are now dead, and thousands are wounded.

How about this challenge:

SHOW me and offer PROOF that the Russians have not violated Human Rights in the last 30 minutes?

Well - this is a fun game, isn't it?

The truth is - you cannot and you will not.

So here we are back to square one - our MARINES were bombed at that base.

Deny that. I dare you.

You won't - because the facts are not on your side.

Georgia clashes reignite war fears

South Ossetia says it has evacuated hundreds of women and children

[Centurion2000]

You know damn well from the news reports that the Marines were very fortunate - and although they WERE bombed, none were hurt. Your choice of language and demands of proof are laughable.

The facts are irrefutable - US Marines were attacked at the base they were stationed.

Don't make an assertation you cannot prove. Do I care if the Russians are following the laws of land warfare against Georgians. Not really. I have never expected the Soviets to fight nicely.

Do I care if the Marines get shot at. Semper Fi and abso-freakin-lutely. BUT I'm not seeing any reports that the Marines have been bombed.

If you were operating without your emotions, you'd know that at a minimum if they had been shot at, they would have returned fire, and I guarantee you that there would be dead russian planes all around them. Oh, AND we would have heard about it by now.

Our equipment was DESIGNED to shoot down Soviet Air Power.

So put up or shut up on your assertation that our troops have been bombed.

[Darnright]

>We don’t have a dog in this fight between Russia and Georgia.<

Georgia is our ally. That gives us reason to watch this carefully.

[Joya]

This is not directly related, but Stan Goodenough’s latest editorial comes to mind, link is

http://www.stangoodenough.com/?p=152

Excerpt:

When Churchill wept
Posted on Tuesday 5 August 2008
Immoral then; it is indefensibly immoral now…

Kasejovice, Czech Republic – The border with Germany is 45 km west – and the Sudetenland just a few minutes’ drive – from my father-in-law’s small holding where my family and I are savoring the summer.

Forests cover this corner of the Czech Republic. In the tiny villages that dot the dales and straddle the hills, the snail’s pace of life appears untouched by 21st Century modernity.

Bohemia is so undisturbed that it is difficult to envisage a more peaceful place. How much harder to imagine that 70 years ago next month, this tranquil territory was hand-fed to Hitler – an appeasement sacrifice that only served to whet his desire for more.

The shocking history is well-known: How the fearful Great Powers threw their trusting friends to the wolves rather than face down the belligerent who was out to devour them all.

In an attempt to placate the strident demands of the Sudeten Germans – who were being goaded by Hitler into seeking secession to Germany – Czech President Edvard Beneš had offered them a literal blank check: an empty sheet of paper on which they could list their demands, all of which he promised to grant if they would just end their provocations.

But the page came back empty. Peace was not in Hitler’s mind.

Meeting him in Munich on September 29, 1938 – while barring governmental representatives from Prague – the leaders of England and France took it upon themselves to “give” Germany the Sudetenland – the high ground encircling Czechoslovakia on which stood the virtually impenetrable fortifications essential to the security of that country.

More than “just territory,” what the Munich Dictate (or Agreement) gave to the Nazis – as British diplomat Harold Nicolson observed at the time – was “the whole key to Europe.”

Winston Churchill was vehemently opposed to Hitler’s possessing “the mountain defense line which marks the ancient boundaries of Bohemia and was specially preserved to the Czechoslovak state as a safeguard of its national existence.”

On hearing of the fait accompli Churchill wept, then furiously denounced Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain’s actions as “sordid, subhuman and suicidal.” It was, he thundered, “the grossest act of bullying treachery” that amounted to not only the sacrifice of England’s honor but the resulting “sacrifice of lives—our people’s lives.”

Forty-eight hours after hosting Chamberlain, the Nazi leader ordered his forces into the abandoned land. Czechoslovakia lay ripe for the picking and, within months, the fuehrer would swallow it whole.

Instead of securing “peace for our time” (Chamberlain’s ostentatious assertion upon returning from Munich), the sacrifice of the Sudetenland toppled the world into war. With Prague in his pocket, Hitler threatened, then invaded, Poland.

Adding shame to shame, Chamberlain fished around desperately for an excuse, any excuse, not to come to Poland’s aid as a British-French-Polish treaty committed him to.

While he dilly-dallied, two million German troops smashed into the country, the Luftwaffe poured its bombs onto Warsaw, and panzers sliced up the Polish countryside. Tens of thousands were slaughtered in the blitzkrieg.

Trying to express his devastation and embarrassment to Polish Ambassador Edward Raczynski, a helpless Churchill (he was not yet prime minister) falteringly hoped “that Britain will keep…will keep its…”

Voice breaking, he began to cry. Britannia would no longer rule the waves.

End of excerpt

http://www.stangoodenough.com/?p=152

[dfwgator]

Two views of Munich:

“Peace in our time.” - Neville Chamberlain
“Our enemies are little worms, I saw them in Munich.” - Adolf Hitler

[justa-hairyape]

So we already have our hands between two sets of pitbulls in the Middle East, and you want us to stick our hands between another set in Europe? I say let the rest of Europe assist Georgia. We’ve got enough on our hands.

According to the map of the region, Georgia is but one country away from Iraq and it borders the NATO member Turkey.

[justa-hairyape]

Why would the Russians want Iran to have the ability to nuke Moscow?

For starters, the Russians have a very good missile defense system around Moscow.