Posted on 07/05/2008 2:19:29 PM PDT by theoldmarine
Tablet Ignites Debate on Messiah and Resurrection By ETHAN BRONNER JERUSALEM — A three-foot-tall tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew that scholars believe dates from the decades just before the birth of Jesus is causing a quiet stir in biblical and archaeological circles, especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days. If such a messianic description really is there, it will contribute to a developing re-evaluation of both popular and scholarly views of Jesus...“This is the sign of the son of Joseph. This is the conscious view of Jesus himself. This gives the Last Supper an absolutely different meaning. To shed blood is not for the sins of people but to bring redemption to Israel.”
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
1) The Angel Gabriel does not go around giving orders to God.
2) Jesus clearly stated that "my kingdom is not of this world": I.e. his mission was not to rule or "redeem" the worldly state of Israel. He also told his disciples "I have other sheep not of this flock." I take that to mean that Jesus was not the politically liberating messiah the Jews expected, but the Savior of the world, although that appears to be what the Jewish scholars are saying based on this stone
3) If the idea that the messiah would arise after three days was a familiar one in Israel in the immediate pre-Christian era, which were Jesus disciples so mystified when he told them "the Son of Man must die, but in 3 days he will rise again?" Why in particular did Peter resist the idea that the messiah must die?
Basically, this is just another attempt to undermine the divinity and mission of Jesus Christ, by people who never accepted it anyway.
True enough.
“Jewish scholar is now suggesting that the Christians got the idea from this stone or its source, and then predicated the idea of Jesus.”
Like we couldn’t see that coming!
So, what they are saying is somebody wrote down a prophecy of the Messiah. Somebody read it, and ‘predicated’ the idea of Jesus, and then the real Jesus appeared, and did exactly what prophecy said he would do, and....
It’s all a coincidence?
What I want to know is, who wrote it?
True - and the leader that took the reigns after the Crucification was also from the lineal House of David, James the Just - blood brother of Jesus. He was also a High Priest - and killed by the priesthood in 62 AD.
It was Paul, who never met Jesus nor was taught by Him, that anointed himself an apostle and preached for many years before ever deigning to go the Jerusalem to meet with James the Just and Peter and John.
It was Paul that, basically, preached to the non-Jews - and changed many things that the early Christians held to.
Jesus didn't come to start a new religion, but the set aright the things that had been corrupted...
Matthew 5:17
"17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
Wow, important discovery. As a Christian, I am so overwhelmed how the Lord proves Himself to us. Are we listening?
Exactly = AFter all, we know the Jews were expecting a Messiah = it's just that when He came, they didn't recognize Him as such = anymore that many of us would have then, and probably not now.
It's the nature of man...
They knew Jesus as Mary's son, from Galilee - how could HE be the Messiah?
Christianity is built on the template of the Judaism which was practiced during Christ’s time. It covers precisely mainsteam Judaism of the time and fullfills and completes promise and prophecy of OT scripture.
Nope
Ever read the book of Acts? Paul received his instruction directly from Jesus himself. None of the apostles contradicted this belief and none of them challenged Paul as an apostle. Paul was completely in line with the Jewish church centered around James and Peter in Jerusalem, and vice-versa. They were preaching the same gospel.
“””””””””””””
Jesus didn’t come to start a new religion, but the set aright the things that had been corrupted...
Matthew 5:17
“17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
“””””””””””””
I trust paul more than you, especially if your trying to use that verse to justify following the jewish law. Jesus fulfills the law and Jesus fulfills a prophets. Jesus fulfillment of the law brings in a new order.
It takes the Holy Ghost to move us to understanding. We can’t do it on our own. That was my point. So, here we have all these “unbelievers” attempting to rationalize the Bible based on other human writing. The Bible is God’s Word; not man’s. It can’t be rationalized by man. Man’s rationalization is meaningless. But yet we sure try...
(alternative version)
The Holy Ghost is the vehicle we ride to get to understanding. We can only ride that vehicle, alone. I have no point. So, many believers attempt to understand the Bible by using other human writing. The Bible is God’s Inspiration, written in man’s words. So it could be understood by man. Man’s understanding of God is very beneficial. You can’t understand God,if you don’t try....
The article supports the idea that resurrection and redemption was an established piece of semetic tradition before the birth of the historical Jesus. That's been around for a long time, this only supports the concept.
What individuals do with the following two thousand years is their business, not part of the historical record until and unless other bits of the record turn up. When that happens I'm sure the same crew will find a way to interpret it precisely as they wish to interpet it.
How very objective and scholarly of you. Your reprimand is dryly noted.
“To shed blood is not for the sins of people but to bring redemption to Israel.”
Well, what I said still fits. If this is their ‘view’ of the situation, then it means Jesus was their Messiah, and they blew it.
The New York Times. Aren’t they the ones who received the Pulitzer prize for holocaust denial?
http://www.nationalreview.com/stuttaford/stuttaford050703.asp
Maybe I should trust them on Christianity. (Sarcasm)
You are right. Many people today seem to think that Christianity (or Jesus himself) came from heaven in the middle of Rome (that is now known as the Vatican) bringing a set of tablet. People with such view usually are ‘surprised’ when there’s a discovery about ‘ancient documents’ about Jesus or his disciples that a bit different from the canonical Bible, not knowing (or ignoring) the fact that during Jesus time or shortly after that there were zillion competing documents that the Church Fathers —with the guidance of the Holy Spirit— had to sort out.
1) There was a legend about a Jewish leader that was raised from the dead after three days.
2) The followers of a Jewish revolutionary named Simon were responsible for the legend, and wrote it on the tablet in order to convince their fellow revolutionists that Simon was the Messiah.
3) The legend of a Jewish leader rising after three days became prominent around the time of Jesus.
4) The fact that the legend was really supposed to be about Simon became lost around the time of Jesus.
5) Somehow, by piecing together a faded script of an incomplete document that may refer to someone rising from the dead in three days, or may not, the fact that this was about Simon rising from the dead et al become apparent to this particular scholar--apparently being infinitely smarter then those who were alive around the time who were oblivious to this fact!
6) The fact that ten people who spent three years with Jesus testified that they were eye witnesses miracles he performed and his resurrection, and the fact they were willing to be persecuted and suffer death rather then deny what they claimed to have witnessed, is not very good evidence.
7) The supposition of 1-5 is good evidence that will shake the testimony of 6.
Nice try guy...not really...actually pretty pathetic.
Do you know what its like to be filled with the Holy Spirit? Can you really be sure it is "crap"?
So does the bible. The entire Bible, from the earliest days of Moses, is based on the appearance of the one who would do this.
What the article does, is try cheapen it to a mere bit of folklore carved on a rock that changes the meaning of Jesus being the bread of life and the salvation and everlasting life given to us with his blood.
Gen. 49: 10 sceptre . . . until Shiloh come.
Gen. 49: 24 from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel.
Num. 24: 17 there shall come a Star out of Jacob.
Deut. 18: 15 raise up unto thee a Prophet.
Ps. 2: 7 (Ps. 2: 12) Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee.
Ps. 22: 1 my God, why hast thou forsaken me.
Ps. 22: 16 they pierced my hands and my feet.
Ps. 24: 10 Who is this King of glory.
Ps. 34: 20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.
Ps. 68: 18 thou hast led captivity captive.
Ps. 69: 9 zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
Ps. 69: 21 in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
Ps. 110: 4 priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Ps. 118: 22 stone which the builders refused is become the head.
Ps. 132: 17 make the horn of David to bud.
Isa. 7: 14 a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son . . . Immanuel.
Isa. 9: 6 unto us a child is born.
Isa. 11: 1 there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse.
Isa. 25: 9 this is our God: we have waited for him.
Isa. 28: 16 I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone.
Isa. 40: 3 Prepare ye the way of the Lord.
Isa. 42: 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners.
Isa. 50: 6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks.
Isa. 53: 5 he was wounded for our transgressions.
Isa. 59: 20 Redeemer shall come to Zion.
Isa. 61: 1 anointed me to preach good tidings.
Jer. 23: 5 raise unto David a righteous Branch.
Ezek. 37: 12 I will open your graves.
Dan. 9: 24 to make reconciliation for iniquity.
Dan. 9: 26 shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself.
Hosea 11: 1 I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Hosea 13: 14 I will redeem them from death.
Jonah 2: 6 Thou brought up my life from corruption.
Micah 5: 2 Bethlehem . . . out of thee shall he come forth unto me.
Hab. 3: 13 thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people.
Zech. 3: 8 (Zech. 6: 12) I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
Zech. 9: 9 thy King cometh unto thee . . . riding upon an ass.
Zech. 11: 13 I was prised at . . . thirty pieces of silver.
Zech. 13: 6 I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Mal. 3: 1 Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple.
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