Posted on 03/30/2008 12:35:05 PM PDT by buccaneer81
Openly carrying gun not a crime Sunday, March 30, 2008 3:43 AM By Bill Bush THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
In the political tussle over Ohio's concealed-carry gun law, one fact seems to have been overlooked by many: You never needed a permit to carry a gun in public, and you still don't --- you just can't conceal it.
As long as you haven't been convicted of a felony, if you want to wear a pistol on your belt or walk around town carrying a shotgun, Ohio has no law against it.
But if you do, don't be surprised if you get some unwanted attention from police officers.
Philip Turner, 30, discovered that in July when he walked from his Hilliard apartment to his parked truck wearing a gun on his belt. At the time, Turner worked protecting banks' ATMs as they were serviced and delivering diamonds to jewelry stores.
An undercover agent with the Ohio Investigative Unit -- the police agency that enforces the state's alcohol, tobacco and food-stamp laws -- saw the gun and quickly ordered him against his truck with his hands on his head.
"He came up and treated me like a felon for absolutely no reason at all," Turner said. "There wasn't even a suspicious action on my part to warrant him taking this action against me. Had I been out waving a gun around the parking lot, (then) yeah."
After being detained for about 30 minutes, and after Hilliard police arrived at the agent's request, Turner was released without charges. An internal investigation that concluded this week found that neither Agent Timothy Gales, who had stopped Turner, nor his partner, Betty Ford, did anything wrong.
However, it also revealed that Gales did not know it was legal for Turner to carry a gun openly, said Lindsay Komlanc, spokeswoman for the state Department of Public Safety. As a result, more than 100 agents in the unit are to attend a mandatory refresher course on Ohio's gun laws over the next couple of months, she said.
They might be surprised at what's legal.
The investigation report said that, weeks before Turner was stopped, agents stopped a 13- or 14-year-old boy who was carrying a rifle in public. They called his mother, who retrieved the gun. Then they called a supervisor to figure out what charge to file against the boy.
The answer: nothing. The supervisor advised them that "it was their right to carry a gun openly and they were allowed to do this," according to the report.
Ohio law says you can't sell a gun to people younger than 18 or provide them with one, except for "hunting, sporting or educational purposes," said Lt. Shawn Davis of the State Highway Patrol. A child must take a gun-safety course before going hunting, Davis added.
It's not illegal "that we see" for a juvenile of any age to carry a gun in public, said Jennifer Brindisi, a spokeswoman for the Ohio attorney general's office.
Turner, who has a license to carry a concealed gun, said he was carrying his gun openly "because it's my right. I choose to exercise my right to protect myself." He doesn't know whether the two agents pulled their guns; he was instructed not to face them. The agents told investigators they didn't.
But it wouldn't be unreasonable for officers to draw their guns until they know what the situation is, said Sgt. Rich Weiner of the Columbus Police Division.
"The first thing we need to address: This man has a gun," Weiner said. "We're going to pull our guns.
"As a police officer, we also have the right to protect ourselves and protect the public, so we do have the right to disarm him momentarily. Now everybody is a little bit more at ease. We don't have a potential weapon being used against an officer or anybody else."
If your open display of a firearm is causing panic, you could be charged with inducing panic, Weiner said. If you carry it onto private property, you could be charged with trespassing, he said.
Komlanc of Public Safety wouldn't say why the agents and a police dive team were at Turner's apartment complex last July because the case is continuing.
bbush@dispatch.com
I found that out the hard way! I was carrying open in Montezuma County and got rousted by 6 officers in the grocery store.
Showed my CCW and they said I had to carry concealed as there was an ordinance saying I couldn’t carry open in the county.
They also tried to tell me that my visitors coming from California and Arizona couldn’t carry concealed on their CCWs. Funny...the website of state’s CCWs that are recognized by Colorado specifically say those 2 are recognized! Needless to say, we ALL carried, but I was watched/stalked by the police for several weeks after that!
Thread hijack or trolling?
No confusion on that score. In fact I plan on doing the same while hunting and fishing in areas far away from civilization, but in urban areas I’m not looking to make a statement.
For example, you’re patrolling downtown and you see a guy with a gun in his belt. He walks out of a store and get’s in a truck and starts to back out. What action would you take to “protect yourself?”
You know, I was thinking about this while reading that statement. What changed over the course of the last 200 years that morphed this mindset? I mean, people use to walk around with weapons all the time.
I remember that incident. Ol’ Tim must be hiding behind his union’s skirts to still have his job.
The OP’s comments in post #1 are the issue here (again, not the content of article, just the OP’s own personal commentary). He sarcastically suggests that it is par for the course for LEOs to be ignorant, incompetent, and/or stupid with regard to the law.
I don’t see how anyone can read that any other way. Are people just not seeing what he wrote in post #1? That’s all I can think. At this point it doesn’t even matter if people agree or disagree with the sentiment expressed; the strange thing is people acting like his comments aren’t there and don’t mean what they say.
The OP’s comments in post #1 are the issue here (again, not the content of article, just the OP’s own personal commentary). He sarcastically suggests that it is par for the course for LEOs to be ignorant, incompetent, and/or stupid with regard to the law.
I don’t see how anyone can read that any other way. Are people just not seeing what he wrote in post #1? That’s all I can think. At this point it doesn’t even matter if people agree or disagree with the sentiment expressed; the strange thing is people acting like his comments aren’t there and don’t mean what they say.
With more than 100 agents in the unit(prolly all of them, BTW) attending a mandatory refresher course on Ohio’s gun laws over the next couple of months.
He may have a valid point.
They do seem to not understand the law, as he stated.
Not the first time it has happened. Won’t be the last either.
It may not be par for the course, but it isn’t as rare as it should be either.
If you are getting payed to enforce the law, you darned better know it, or get used to paying for it.
Many people in this country are ignorant of the law. LEO's are captives of their training and their command philosophy.
Within that group is another group who enjoy brandishing their ignorance at the expense of the people who pay their salary and mean them no harm. I have posted several examples on this thread.
You can also use keyword "donutwatch" for some funny and not so funny examples posted to Free Republic.
Best regards,
Bump for later
***If your open display of a firearm is causing panic, you could be charged with inducing panic, Weiner said. If you carry it onto private property, you could be charged with trespassing, he said.***
The name fits
If you’re carrying concealed, the mag well has to be empty? Do you also have to have the slide locked back?
“Gimme your money!”
“Please excuse me while I load my Colt.”
What if you carry a revolver?
If anyone wants to know just how screwed up interpretation of carry laws can be, just ask a few of your local LE what the legal length of a pocket knife is and see how many answers you will get. You’ll be amazed.
I’m not recommending it as a preferred way to carry a firearm, my friend. I was merely stating the ways a firearm can be carried legally in New Mexico. I do know a man who successfully defended himself while carrying a firearm exactly as you mentioned, slide back, pistol in right pocket and clip in left. If you are practiced at it, you can produce a loaded weapon just about as fast as most people can competently handle a firearm, much faster than a woman who carries in her purse. Still, I don’t recommend it.
Hardly. I've judged your willful ignorance and obsessive desire for centralized control and found you wanting.
Since you ask, you seem more like you're trolling.
Wow! You must have been to school.
You’re what I call a keyboard coward.
Big words from the safety of your room.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.