Posted on 02/23/2008 10:56:29 AM PST by Bob J
Ever since Super Tuesday a super debate has been raging on FR concerning John McCain. I was never a McCain supporter, in fact I penned the post Super Tuesday post "Official FR Drinking Thread" so we could together drown our common disappointments into oblivion.
FReepers seem to be moving into three distinct groups. The first are those that have always supported McCain, a lot or partially. There are those that don't like McCain but are willing to support him because they believe they will get some of what they want or to defeat what the see as the more critical danger, Obama or Clinton. The there's the third group, those that viscerally dislike McCain and vow never to vote for him for any reason.
The actions and motivation for support from the first two groups seem obvious...they would rather see McCain in the White House than a dem. But for the life of me I cannot understand some of the actions of the third.
Allow me to explain.
I understand you dislike McCain and the reasons why. He is far too liberal on many issues, he has stabbed conservatives in the back several times and he is too cozy with the dems. These are all defensible reasons to not vote for him or to vote third party and you have every right to vote as you see fit and for whatever reasons you hold. What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.
As flawed as McCain is there is no way a logical case can be made that we would be better off under Obama or Hillary (O&H). Even on most issues where McCain is closer to the left than to us, O&H are much farther to the left than he is and would do much more damage than McCain. On the issues where he is not, the WOT, taxes, abortion, etc., the differences are stark and this does not even take into count extended issues like judicial appointments.
So why are you working so hard, so viscerlly, so nasty, to turn votes against McCain? If you truly feel as you do than go sit out November or cast your vote for your 3rd party candidate. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why you push for a McCain and GOP loss.
It may be as simple as "misery loves company". It may be that you validate your own position by getting others to believe as you do. It may be that there are some dem propaganda plants on FR. I don't know but I sure would like to and I know others do as well.
Nice work. Thank you.
That Delay clip should open some eyes. It’s quite good.
He addressed the tax cuts in there too. He says that the tax cuts would have been much larger except for John McCain who fought it tooth and nail.
Which is the best argument you've made so far for you to stop typing. Now.
Thanks for staying on these topics and posting it.
I am behind door #2 also, and as much as I would hate to be seen as defending McCain, I must point out that he was a true conservative up until about 10 years ago like you said... When was McCain-Feingold?? I proudly voted for him as Senator for many times until he co-wrote that bill. Since then, have written him numerous letters/emails letting him know I was not happy with how he voted a few different times now... swearing up and down I would never vote for him again. But I think what happened is 8 years ago he saw who got the nod ago over him, a somewhat less (fiscally) conservative George W. Bush and from that point on he has tacked toward the center/left for this run. It could almost be argued that he has also provided a service by showing what kind of crap you end up with when you try to act in a “Bi-Partisan” way... As Rush said about the NY Times the other day, hopefully he will wake up and learn that liberals can NOT be trusted!
Personally I think he would beat Hillary, because she has as many people that wont vote for her as McCain does. But against Obama, I think he will lose a fairly close race that could be won if somehow all the Anti-McCain Conservatives would just swallow their pride and vote for the most conservative of the options given to you.
If not you are all going to get to learn live with the regret that those of us that voted for Perot over G.H.W.Bush felt for allowing Clinton to be unleashed on our country the first time over a broken promise of no new taxes.... Instead we got Clinton’s tax increases too not to mention the crippled military to boot.
yep
He may be McCain's VP!
I knew someone would make my point for me.
You’ve been taking the words out of my mouth a lot lately. :)
The short answer to the thread's question is simple; McCain is unfit for office. The GOP is falling all over itself to tell us that is not a criterion they worry about.
Wow, FR must be hitting a denial streak. These ‘support McCain, damnit!’ threads used to number 5-6 a week. Lately, its been only 2-3.
“But I think what happened is 8 years ago he saw who got the nod ago over him, a somewhat less (fiscally) conservative George W. Bush and from that point on he has tacked toward the center/left for this run. It could almost be argued that he has also provided a service by showing what kind of crap you end up with when you try to act in a “Bi-Partisan” way... As Rush said about the NY Times the other day, hopefully he will wake up and learn that liberals can NOT be trusted!”
Trouble is, the base has nominated him so therefore the base needs to be woken up, because many of them are backing a liberal that has proven OVER and OVER again that he is not to be trusted. Ever hear the story of the scorpion and the frog?
“Personally I think he would beat Hillary, because she has as many people that wont vote for her as McCain does. But against Obama, I think he will lose a fairly close race that could be won if somehow all the Anti-McCain”
There is a case to be made that by nominating McAmnesty, the Repube party deserves it’s coming fate.
“Conservatives would just swallow their pride and vote for the most conservative of the options given to you.”
Sorry, not playing your football game anymore Lucy, you keep jerking the ball away at the last minute.
“If not you are all going to get to learn live with the regret that those of us that voted for Perot over G.H.W.Bush felt for allowing Clinton to be unleashed on our country the first time over a broken promise of no new taxes”
Speak for yourself, I do not regret that vote.
“.... Instead we got Clinton’s tax increases too not to mention the crippled military to boot.”
I was IN the military at the time. The drawdown began under Bush and no Repube stood up and said NO to it being continued under the impeached one.
I have a news flash; The GOP was horribly outnumbered by the voters. What are they supposed to do? Announce to the country that GOP voters couldn't find their asses in the dark if all five fingers were flashlights?
It IS what it IS. The reality of my options has placed me in the position of concluding.....
Another major issue is his obsession with amnesty and open borders, something that will cause lasting harm to the US. He actually voted against barring terrorists from US. This brought to mind the Manchurian Candidate (I am not accusing him of being one, but the image remains).
The are many other issues that converge to help make him unacceptable. Some of them are: His ultra liberal agenda (Kennedy-Feingold). His adultery and other scandals involving him and his wife. His endless lies. He spread terrible lies about Mitt Romney yet now he cries about the New York Times article. He is a Washington insider who has never been a governor, mayor, or ran a successful business.
If we accept somebody as flawed as him, then we will never get a strong candidate. It will be a win for the media and the left. There has to be a line we will not cross and say, "He is not acceptable."
Mac is a poser conservative and poser war hero. The only thing sacred to mac is mac. Everyone else can go to hell.
This is why I find him unfit to command. Hope this helps.
I decided myself that it is not appropriate or useful at this point in time to hammer it in. I tried for over 15 months to get it in front of as many FReepers as possible. It is on my homepage and anyone can read it and/or link to it.
Now it seems more appropriate when the question arises "why don't you support McCain" (like this thread which specifically asked that) and when people seem surprised and/or outraged that the MSM or the Dems call McCain's record into question. There should be no surprise about it. FR has been calling McCain's record into question far longer than my link list goes back.
IMO the NYTs recent lame "expose" is a setup. They picked something very lame and will take the heat for it willingly and intentionally. When everyone is satisfied that the NYTs has been thoroughly discredited and beat up for it they will publish something with meat in it. Then the rest of the press will jump on it looking to diss the NYTs some more. They will find substance in the 'new' story and the NYTs fecklessness will be forgotten.
Don’t look now, but a tree snake is eating your egg.
First, let me say that I was answereing your question, not stating this was my position.
As to whom the message would be sent to.......... I suspect that would be any future RINO who would know that he would be wasting his time without a conservative base. Maybe even the party machine.
This action is very appealing to me and I would probably consider it, were it not for SCOTUS and fed judge appontments, national security, etc........
Knock yourself out. Your premise is wrong though. The MSM made McCain look good and the GOP did nothing to counter that. The first primaries were in blue states where Republican voters are fairly moderate to begin with and Independents, Democrats and out of staters were allowed to vote. McCain didn’t win a majority of Republicans in any of those early states. He finally won in FL after everyone else had dropped out except Rudy and Huckabee. Not much of a vote of confidence there.
You are very insightful I agree 100%.
I haven’t been posting much, I HAVE been reading a lot here.
That is exactly what I have noticed.
I never bought that Romney was a conservative but I do think he was better than McMainiac. Anyone who claims McMainiac is a conservative has as much credibility as those who claim Romney was one.
Rudy was better than either of those because he was up front with his liberalism but promised certain things.
My preference went something like:
Fred
Rudy
Romney
and McCain and Huckabee tied for last more or less but now I see McCain as second to last. I guess I see McMainiac as better than Huckaphony. But I am not going to be excited about voting for him. If they were to set up a Orange Julius next to the polling place, it would be a hard choice between spending all day there and going and vote. But I guess he's better than either Obama or Hillary. Just slightly. Depends who his running mate is.
And how far to the left he runs in the GE. I'm guessing he might go as far as stepping down so his good friend Obama can run unopposed. The media would love it and McManiac loves what the media loves.
McCain is the machine candidate for sure. Bush's choice.
Whatever makes you feel better. He won using the system in place. In other words.....he won. Let me put it another way, "he won". What portion of that seems to be confusing some of you? Is it the part about him winning? I'm pretty fed up with the "Post McCain Stress Syndrome".
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