*** LIVE THREAD MSNBC GOP PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE, 24 JANUARY 2008 ***

MSNBC | 24 JANUARY 2008 | EEE SUBSTITUTING FOR COUNTERCOUNTERCULTRE

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Debate among the GOP presidential contenders. Live at 9:00pm EST/8:00 CST

[Reagan Man]

Transcript link, page #16.

[AzSteven]

With that logic we could have nuclear weapons. There have to be some sort of limits.

Not really. "Arms" as used in the vernacular of the 18th Century generally referred to the weapons carried and used by individual soldiers. Heavier weapons were generally referred to as 'Ordnance'. Under that common interpretation, citizens would be fine carrying the small arms of the day, but hauling around a MOAB, a Minuteman II or a Mk61 would not be acceptable.

Of course, if I found the guy strong enough to carry a MOAB on his own, I probably would not run over and yell at him; he might drop the thing on my foot!

[AzSteven]

Clicked 'post' before I copied in the reference to the definition of arms versus ordnance:

(Arms Versus Ordnance)

[incindiary]

You are just as dishonest as the candidate you support. My question (which I asked you 3 times) was "What post-debate polls are you talking about?" Because you originally said, "The recent polls on it show most think he won." (note: you said polls plural) When I asked you what polls you were talking about, you never answered my question. And now you're saying that you were talking about the MSNBC poll that I mentioned Romney didn't win? LOL!!

And then you have the nerve to say, "I think you don’t like their results, so you can’t accept it." Why would I not like the results of the MSNBC poll when Paul won? lol!

And you think that because Romney came in 2nd place in that poll, he "won" because in your mind Ron Paul supporters don't count? That's hilarious. Thanks for the laugh. My vote counts, thank you very much, and if you don't think so, then maybe Cuba or the Soviet Union would be a country more to your liking.

Your Newspeak would make Orwell proud.

[olivia3boys]

Charles Shaw wine.

[CottonBall]

I knew it - that you’re one of the Ron Paul lunatics! (BTW, I don’t HAVE a candidate. My conservative candidate left the race.) Yes, RP won in the MSNBC poll. I said that was the poll I looked at in the beginning and I also explained in excruciating detail why I discounted RP’s numbers. But since that doesn’t fit in with your virtual reality, you are going on and on and on and on and on about which poll I used, when I already explained that. Do you always nag endlessly when things don’t go your way?

While RP might have a majority in an online poll, in the REAL world polls, where each voter only gets to vote ONE time, he is at about 4% in Florida. While I rarely trust polls, I don’t think a jump from 4% to over 40% will be realistic by Tuesday.

I wonder....are all the Ron Paul cultists going to commit mass suicide when he doesn’t win? (This question is no reflection on RP himself or most of his supporters, just the lunatic fringe group of his followers).

[MEG33]

Thank you for your personal observations of Mitt.

[CottonBall]

Well, it was a poor choice of words but it won’t harm him.

Taken in context, it won't. He was saying he didn't care if the voters knew how much he was spending of his own money, but didn't want to reveal it to the other candidates. I don't blame him one bit - the class-envy dig by the lib moderators was out of line.

[RTO]

‘Spinnin’ a Battle in Boca’ (sung to Livin’ La Vida Loca, by Ricky Martin)

They spin new po-sitions: ‘fair tax’ and ‘border walls’…
I see a repetition: Same lies – Bull sh*tters all.
They’ll give equivocations; smooth lips pander’s delight.
They’ve got no true convictions: they play both left and right.

They’ll say views made so long off can go flipping in campaign.
They’ll say forgive their days of spite, but then change their ways again…
You like bullsh*t in your brain? Come On!

On what side will they out? … Spinnin’a battle in Boca!
They’ll just dance all around… Spinnin’a battle in Boca!
Their quips all fall like lead, and we’re beginnin’ to call ‘em jokers…
Who will vet them now? Spinnin’a battle in Boca! Come On!
Spinnin’a battle in Boca! Come on!
Spinnin’a battle in Boca!

Showed up all new n’ pretty… them flunkies beat to hell…
they took apart n’ rejected Ronnie…
Me must admit we in a deep dung hill.
They better drink Goldwater’s brand: Hey, quench them RINO flames!
Wonder whose hat they haste to wear? Whose clever scheme, this game?
Yeah, they’ll make you vote in vain… Oh God!

On what side will they out? … Spinnin’a battle in Boca!
They’ll just dance all around… Spinnin’a battle in Boca!
Their quips all fall like lead and we’re beginnin’ to call ‘em jokers…
Who will vet them now? Spinnin’a battle in Boca! Come On!
Spinnin’a battle in Boca! Come on!
Spinnin’a battle in Boca!

They’ll say views made so long off can go flipping in campaign.
They’ll say forgive their days of spite, but then change their ways again…
You Like bullsh*t in your brain? Come On!

On what side will they out? … Spinnin’a battle in Boca!
They’ll just dance all around… Spinnin’a battle in Boca!
Their quips all fall like lead and we’re beginnin’ to call ‘em jokers…
Who will vet them now? Spinnin’a battle in Boca! Come On!
Spinnin’a battle in Boca! Come on!
Spinnin’a battle in Boca!

[FreedBird]

Thankyou

[floriduh voter]

Well, if you think I'm a liberal, you are incorrect. If you were generalizing, may I suggest the liberals on the gop side are Giuliani, McCain and Paul?

Huck's not a liberal exactly but imo, he's not smart enough to be the leader of the free world.

[floriduh voter]

Bush 41 didn’t get re-upped cuz he said “no new taxes” and then raised them.

[floriduh voter]

Stop with the embracing. I hardly know you.

I don't have to be for guns to be a conservative. Now stop the veiled personal attacks. I'm no liberal.

[mtnwmn]

It’s all very interesting. I know nothing about weapons. I’m afraid it is all up to interpretation. Thanks for the info.

[RTO]

Has anyone considered what will happen to our Right to keep and bear arms if Hitlery Pimpton, Orgama Winfrey, John McInsane, Mitt Rubbery, Rooty-tootie-Juli-Fruity, or Mike-Praise-me-Huckster gains the reins to power? Not one of these individuals is an honest supporter of the Second Amendment... And I don’t care what “gun group” has signed onto their charade.

I hope FRpers are stockpiling weapons, ammo and food, because I guarantee the RINO-Sociocrat wolves will outlaw everything but squirt guns. The NWO will not happen as long as Americans are armed to the teeth.

Let me point out that the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting, not about sport-shooting, AND NOT ABOUT PERSONAL SELF-DEFENSE (Are you reading this Mitt?) The purpose of the 2nd Amendment, as explained in the Federalist papers, is to preserve the people from a tyrannical government. Our Right to keep and bear arms is about our Right to overpower the central government should that monolith decide to abuse their lease on life, as granted by us in the US Constitution.

The 2nd Amendment is the FINAL check and balance on federal power. For this reason, all contrary arguments advanced, such as Mitt Rubbery’s assertion that weapons must be restricted in their capacity, firepower or lethality (Are you reading this Rudy?) are anathema to the intent of the 2nd Amendment. They can have no other purpose than to disarm the American citizen incrementally.

The supreme law of the land is the US Constitution. It reads that “…The people’s right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Look up the definition of that word “infringement”… then look up the myriad of gun control law, passed to undermine the capacity of the people to rein in their government, if need be. Incrementally, by continuous acts of infringement, we have been made to become docile slaves, servile to government, and senile of our rights. Gun ownership is not a “privilege”… IT IS A RIGHT. Since it is a clearly defined Right within our Constitution, then it cannot be that possession of any firearm, no matter type or capacity or lethality, violates the law.

The central government cannot make you a felon for the very act of practicing that which is solemnly granted by the supreme law of the land, unless the central government unilaterally revokes the 2nd Amendment, in which case you will then very much need its recourse. The government cannot take away your Right to keep and bear arms for reason of exercising your Right to keep and bear arms! Neither may the individual States revoke that which is guaranteed under the US Constitution. So why have we allowed this to be done? Because we value some imagined security (read ‘comfort’) over our liberty… Soon we will be deprived of both, and deservedly so.

Do any here think the federal government will show up at your front door with a 38 revolver, a 12-gauge shotgun, or a semi-auto AR16? If you believe they will, then you deserve your fate.

[claudiustg]

Thanks for sounding off. It has been readily apparent to me for some time that Mitt is the superior candidate. It is becoming apparent to many others as this race goes on.

[Fred]

A vote for Myth is a vote for a ULTRA-LIBERAL Republican.

Wear your liberalism proudly, defend it proudly, deal with it proudly...

[oldbrowser]

It is depressing how many of the candidates don't understand that the 10th amendment to the constitution is a limitation on the federal government and doesn't apply to the states.