Four People Shot Outside Colorado Springs New Life Church

Fox News ^ | 09 DEC 07 | Fox News

[aomagrat]

[I waited 45 seconds and actually posted something substantial--Ed.]

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — At least four people were shot outside of a Colorado Springs church on Sunday, but it was not immediately known whether the shootings were related to an earlier shooting about 70 miles away, authorities said.

[Quix]

Probably true. Though I’d probably be far richer as the latter.

[LibertyRocks]

Exactly Quix, exactly... Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out. I hope people will take it all to heart.

[Quix]

Thanks tons for your kind words.

Sometiems the little terrier naysayers get real annoying. I need to neuter their capacity to do that more 100%. Doable. Just need to do it.

Thanks so much.

[LibertyRocks]

Oh, I know Quix... I’m just understandably put off by people who rush to blame medication for acts of evil is all... As I’m sure you know, some of us are helped tremendously by these medications and my suffering would’ve stopped sooner had I not been so incredibly afraid to try the medication I needed. I fear people not getting the help they need for fear of ending up being “one of those” who goes off and commits mass murder — and hence, because of their fears, end up being one of those people because they DIDN’T get the help they needed... (I hope that makes sense how I explained it).

[cake_crumb]

Absolutely. I heard there are 60 or more "sub-types" of schizophrenia linked to different personality problems. Overdiagnosed is an understatement. And yep, most treatment seems to consist of prescribing the newest fad drug and forgetting about it.

I've always suspected there's a genetic factor involved...after all, real schizophrenia is a mental illness (or combination) caused at least partly by a physical problem, so it only stands to reason that one can be born with a predisposition to have a chemical imbalance, kist like a predisposition for myopia or anemia.

I suspect that recreational drugs are also a factor in triggering symptoms in some people predisposed to it....because they act by causing a chemical imbalance. I've noticed heavy drug and alcohol use goes hand in hand with the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. I know my brother did both and still drinks heavily, and so do most of the people like him that I've met. They may be self medicating, but at what point did recreational drugs stop being recreational and start being an attempt to shut the voices up so you can hear yourself think?

I am not a phychologist, just pointing out some observations I've made over the decades.

[Rick.Donaldson]

Ok... I’m not sure where THAT came from. But fine. And I’m plenty responsible.

[Quix]

Yes.

Quite reasonable. You raise very good points.

Thanks.

[LibertyRocks]

I fully agree with that Quix. I’ve seen what happens when people are mis-diagnosed, do not receive any counseling, are on the wrong meds for their problems (usually because they are not being honest with their docs, etc...). I’m also extremely concerned about our younger people who are being prescribed medications like Ritalin at an enourmously high rate — in many cases instead of identifying and treating the real reason these kids may be acting out.

I’m not pretending that there are not risks, definitely not. There are true risks and you need to weigh that carefully, set up a support system (and be ready to use it if need be), etc... if you are going to take these medications. I completely agree with that... It’s just that sometimes people are too quick to say that in all cases it’s a bad idea and in doing so create an often unnecessary amount of fear in others that all of us who take these medications might “snap” someday, ya know? Because THAT is the furthest thing from the truth, IMO.

[Uri’el-2012]

Ok... I’m not sure where THAT came from. But fine. And I’m plenty responsible.

No. You are too lazy to use Google or Wiki and
you are too lazy to read the thread before
commenting on others in a supercilious,
condescending and vacuous manner.

[Quix]

You raise good points.

Yes, there is a genetic marker for schizophrenia. I don’t recall all the details in terms of what percentage of the full blown schizophrenia is understood to be caused by the genetic predisposition.

And, even there . . .

Scripture says THE SINS OF THE FATHERS . . . VISITED UPON THE CHILDREN TO THE 3RD & 4TH GENERATION.

We don’t know fully what that means. But I think Pastor Wright’s A MORE EXCELLENT WAY book and ministry are finding out more details about that. Certainly that could end up in such things as genetic predispositions to alcoholism, schizophrenia etc.

We do know from RECENT RESEARCH that

WHAT WE THINK AND SAY CAN CHANGE EVEN OUR DNA.

Which brings new weight to the Scripture:

WHAT A MAN THINKS IN HIS HEART—SO IS HE.

The secular world has NO undestanding of such things and even most Christians don’t—even most Spirit-filled Christians don’t. Thankfully more is being revealed and understood in at least some circles.

More importantly, as Pastor Wright is finding out after fussing at God for years about only 5% of those he prayed for being healed—LIVING LIFE GOD’S WAY—AFFORDS GOD’S HEALTH AND BLESSINGS—ESPECIALLY ONCE THE SPIRITUAL WRONGS ARE RIGHTED AND ONE IS CHOOSING DAILY A SPIRIT-FILLED LIFE.

God’s best to you and yours.

[cake_crumb]

"Though I’d probably be far richer as the latter."

LOL...or not. I was aquainted with a white beared woman once. She only had about a dozen hairs on her chin, like a very scanty goatee, but she was proud of them and wore them 7 or 8 inches long...and urgh, let me tell you. NOT a good look. On the other hand, people might pay you large sums of money to keep it shaved off...

[LibertyRocks]

Exactly Quix... Going on these meds it is very important that you have support, as well as when going off of them. Tragedies happen when people try to come off of addictive medications and drugs of all sorts “cold-turkey”. I’ve seen it happen to a friend of mine years ago.. She was paranoid schizophrenic and decided one day to stop taking the medications she was on instead of talking with her doctors first... BIG MISTAKE!!! One must be weaned off of these medications, and with supervision/counseling. Quitting cold turkey can have disastrous results — especially if the problems that existed before they went on the meds has not been addressed adequately...

[Quix]

I think my one caution maybe even to someone like you . . .

well . . . some background first . . .

My PhD training included MUCH MORE instruction from the fellow who taught the MD psychiatrists at UCSD their psychoactive drug tract . . . on such psychoactive drugs than he gave them in terms of the number of hours of such instruction.

And, I used to be a pretty . . . standard psychologist type on such matters. When certain symptom criteria reached certain levels and other means had been tried, meds were the only and most fitting alternative.

AND THAT CAN STILL BE THE CASE.

I have since learned, however, that things are often a bit more complicated.

1. The drugs are not that problem free and need to be monitored a lot. Some range of drugs often needs to be tried until the specific drug and specific dosage are finely tuned to the person.

2. MANY TIMES, drugs may not be necessary over the long term

IF
IF
IF

the person can be successfully trained to manage their feelings, relationships, choices WITH GUARDING THEIR THOUGHTS; THEIR SELF-TALK; THEIR DAILY CHOICES; THEIR FEELINGS MUCH MORE SUCCESSFULLY WITHOUT MEDS.

And USUALLY, that can be done in even some incredibly difficult cases

IF
IF
IF
IF

the patient/cleint will PERSIST in doggedly working at the behavioral shaping—especially in guarding their thoughts and words and emotions, attitudes like a precious treasure.

To keep it short—I’ll stop there. LOL. I still need to do grades for one more class.

[LibertyRocks]

Thanks again! {{HUGS}}

[Quix]

I much agree with all you wrote.

I especially think that the SUPPORT GROUP/SYSTEM IS EXTREMELY CRITICAL and not all that easy to set up and keep functioning—which is one reason it’s often not happening.

But folks must persist until they have a functioning one and then maintain it well. THERE’S NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A GOOD SUPPORT GROUP

AND MOST OF US NEED ONE FOR VARIOUS REASONS—NOT JUST THE “MENTALLY ILL” LOL!

[Quix]

Goodness? Maybe on a part of a post here and there but mostly I have found his posts not that bad.

Have I missed something in my speed reading?

[Quix]

LOL. There is that.

Thankfully, the Chinese greatly respect white beards.

somewhat jealously.

[Quix]

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

And such folks are often given to arbitrarily deciding to go off such meds.

Going off anti-depressants cold turkey can be a real hazard for some folks—maybe for most.

Takes a lot of monitoring by professionals and the close social network.

[cake_crumb]

Wow, that was an excellent post, and I thank you for the kind thought. I should tell you that my brother is rabidly anti-Christianity, and that probably adds to his problem. He wasn't always that way. He BECAME that way, over a period of time, after being diagnosed. And not because he tried praying for help, because he was never very religious. Your observations are right on the money. Your skill and training are an asset this forum. I hope you continue posting here for many years to come.

[LibertyRocks]

Regarding counselors and mental health professionals being ignorant and even hostile to the spiritual element of suffering... So incredibly true!!! Most people in this field that I have run into are decidedly either agnostic or atheist, and understanding someone who has had faith since they were a small child is very hard for them. They tend to label any and all feelings of spirituality as “religiosity” which does NOT help... I thank the L-rd that even though my current doctors are decidedly liberal they are NOT the type that have ever tried to shake my faith in G-d. (I think perhaps they agree with a lot of the things I’ve mentioned, at least privately.) Without the L-rd in my life, there is no doubt in my mind I would not be sitting here typing this post... And, I think they realize this as well...