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Four People Shot Outside Colorado Springs New Life Church
Fox News ^ | 09 DEC 07 | Fox News

Posted on 12/09/2007 12:49:26 PM PST by aomagrat

Edited on 12/09/2007 12:59:09 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

[I waited 45 seconds and actually posted something substantial--Ed.]

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — At least four people were shot outside of a Colorado Springs church on Sunday, but it was not immediately known whether the shootings were related to an earlier shooting about 70 miles away, authorities said.


TOPICS: Breaking News; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: antichristian; assam; banglist; bombs; christian; christianpersecution; church; churchshooting; colorado; coloradosprings; enemedia; goldencompasskiller; hatecrime; hometown; ieds; newlifechurch; persecution; tedhaggard; thegoldencompass; wonderwoman
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To: XeniaSt

OH! I didn’t realize that people were using acronyms in “normal life”. LOL. I see so many of the damned TLAs and FLAs I can’t stand them!

(TLAs, FLAs = Three Letter Acronyms and Four letter acronyms!) haha


2,101 posted on 12/11/2007 7:55:15 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: bahblahbah

I assume that a portion of his ideations were fantasized or something else . . .

I do not assume that 100% of what he said was fantasy.


2,102 posted on 12/11/2007 8:01:25 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

You’re overanalyzing a bit.

Based on his reporting hearing voices, the kid was likely simply a paranoid schizophrenic, which, while complex, is basically a chemical imbalance. Most schizophrenics aren’t dangerous; some, unfortunately, are.


2,103 posted on 12/11/2007 8:13:40 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt
Wow you must have read through every post to get to mine!! God bless you for that!! You humble me as there have been much better posts than mine.

Looks like the killer held a grudge. Never ever pick up a weapon in anger...always leads to foolish behavior. Blessings to the woman Assam who shot in defense, blessings on the Works family, for healing in the church, for healing of the family of the killer and for this country's view on Christianity as a whole

I tend to wonder still if the "Religion of Peace," is taking note after their "teddy bear," "cartoons," and other foolish incidents...I wonder if this happened in a mosque what the reactions would be like, I wonder when the world and our sleepy MSM Americans, and our president will awaken to the fact that this is a huge war on Christians and Jews the world over and the attacks by the "enemy" are becoming more and more ferocius and irrational."

"Come let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before the Lord our God our Maker for He is our God and we are the people of His pasture and the "sheep" of His hand." ...a bit of a change for the slain sheep throughout the world, even so come quickly Lord Jesus

2,104 posted on 12/11/2007 8:20:00 AM PST by Karliner ("Things are more like they are now than they ever were before. DDE)
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To: Quix

I’m sure the parents are suffering thru the “if I”s right now. People can only do their best though. There are probably none of us who had perfect parents but we survived and messed up with our kids. This guy was 24. That’s an adult. There comes a time when we have to stop blaming others for perceived wrongs and grow up. In his case though, he read as mentally ill which as you know is a disease.


2,105 posted on 12/11/2007 8:20:23 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: Strategerist

That’s

VERY IMPRESSIVE . . . the geologist telling the psychologist how to be a better psychologist.

Methinks your biases are coloring your assessments

yet again.

The data does not support such a simplistic analysis, imho.


2,106 posted on 12/11/2007 8:24:22 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Rick.Donaldson
Google and Wiki are your friend.

2,107 posted on 12/11/2007 8:27:51 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
We can't be having heroes. A search for other possibilities and character questions are probably already being looked at. I think we are even seeing some of that on FR.

This situation,is loaded with God, faith, answered prayer, miracles , forgiving etc. That probably makes some ancy.

2,108 posted on 12/11/2007 8:33:36 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: CindyDawg

It’s not at all clear

how much was “genetic” mentally ill . . .

and how much was willful escaping into/diving into

demonic sourced, influenced stuff.

I, of course, have not had the kid in my counseling room nor have I given him a battery of tests . . .

but from what I’ve read of his blogging . . .

I do not think that schizophrenia etc. would be a sufficient explanation for the kid’s beliefs and behaviors.

Oh, sure, there’s plenty of evidence that 100’s of mental health professionals could list items from the DSM IV to “prove” this or that diagnosis; primary diagnosis and whatever secondary diagnosis/ses.

Doesn’t mean it’s an accurate and comprehensive description of true reality.

For one, MOST such mental health professionals are ignorant of spiritual issues AND HOSTILE TO THEM. Most do not even remotely consider that there is a reality to the demonic realm. imho, that’s dumb and blind. Being dumb and blind they are THEN going to give me a comprehensive analysis on the true reality? I don’t think so. I’ve never observed that to be wise or accurate.

IF he had managed to get his spiritual life and relationship life balanced out, would he still have been “schizophrenic?”

I don’t think so.

But I think it would have taken an isolated CLOSED COMMUNITY of VERY LOVING, DURABLE, DISCERNING, ANOINTED, HEALTHY, BALANCED, SPIRITUALLY POWERFUL folks to get him balanced out from all the “horrors” of his childhood—whether real or imagined or more likely both.

Folks would rather have put him in a different closed community—a mental hospital—drugged him out and warehoused him on insurance as long as possible. I wouldn’t call that progress at all.

Of course, such a community would have been perceived as very cultish by him . . . so there’s lots of CATCH-22’s in this kid’s life and his responses thereto.

The kid seems EVIDENTLY, reportedly from his blogging—however big a percentage was however true—understandably rebelled against some level, evidently of emotional and/or physical/sexual abuse. And, the hypocrisies common to flawed humans in the Christian reference groups offered him nothing convincing—whether because of his anger, outrage, rebellion, demonization and/or their degree of flawed ineptness or lack of persistence in trying to reach him.

Understandable on all sides.

Still, on summary, I believe the kid’s choices were major contributing factors to his level of ‘craziness.’ I do not see him PRIMARILY as a genetic robot to a disease.


2,109 posted on 12/11/2007 8:36:05 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: CindyDawg; All
NAU Ephesians 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will
be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

NAU Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood,
but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces
of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

NAU Ephesians 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God,
so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having
done everything, to stand firm.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua

2,110 posted on 12/11/2007 8:42:46 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Quix

I’m not impressed Q. Talk normal, will ya?


2,111 posted on 12/11/2007 8:42:53 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: XeniaSt

:’)


2,112 posted on 12/11/2007 8:45:03 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: XeniaSt

Well, I use google more than you can imagine, but I generally don’t use it for looking up acronyms like that because a lot of times they are “socially specific”. I’ve tried doing that other times, but I’m just one of those folks who is very anti-acronym and usually I ignore completely anyone that starts using them in a thread.

The reason for this is I’ve been inundated by them for over 30 years with the military, government and so forth and it’s fine in CONTEXT, but out of context (talking about a gun-totin’ gal for instance) they have NO context. If you’re writing a white paper or an article it’s always polite and correct to say things like “White House Communications Agency (WHCA)” and then go on later to use the abbreviation. But to plot it down in the middle of a conversation where the definition wasn’t given original isn’t very helpful. Especially not for folks like me simply blaze over acronyms out of pure, unadulterated hatred for the things. :)


2,113 posted on 12/11/2007 8:47:32 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~

How sad... That kind of hearkens back to what I said about people not being honest with their doctors and such. Doctors and other people can’t help properly if people are not honest about the problems they are experiencing...


2,114 posted on 12/11/2007 8:47:47 AM PST by LibertyRocks
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To: nicmarlo; All
"I am surprised that no one did enough to help him.....it would seem he must have been sending out some red flags...."

I'm amazed at some of the posts on this thread. My opinion of Pentecostal practices aside, there IS no help for some people. The boy's writings look like classic paranoid schizophrenia. He heard voices. He thought everyone was out to injure him in some way. His self absorption seemed to be complete. He mentioned drug and alcohol abuse in one post. He seems to have exhibited ALL the classic symptoms and behaviors of A (the most serious) personality disorders and several B traits. He claims in his posts he tried various treatments, but doesn't go into normal detail, such as giving his opinion of a specific drug or treatment, leading me to believe he's lying and/or didn't continue any treatment long enough for it to help him. As for the Prozac, which he claims he DID take for 8 months, he needed Thorazine, not Prozac.

I question I want answered is why wasn't he committed?

2,115 posted on 12/11/2007 8:48:23 AM PST by cake_crumb (May I never live to see the day America has a 'popular war'. God bless our troops.)
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To: CindyDawg

Uhhhh, what part was unclear?


2,116 posted on 12/11/2007 8:54:43 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: nw_arizona_granny

There was one witness statement that said she had shot him and he “went down”, and then he reached for something that they thought may have been a grenade, and that was when she started shooting again... I’d have to search back through to find that statement again, as the most recent accounts don’t include that part.

Regarding the callers you mentioned: Even 2 security guards hired by the church were paralyzed in this situation — they had their guns drawn, but couldn’t pull the trigger. And, they wouldn’t hand the weapon over to someone (Bourbonnais) that had been in combat before and wasn’t afraid to use the gun... (I’ve often heard the message that if you purchase a gun, and if you carry, you’d better be prepared to use it... Otherwise, it could become a liability instead of a help.)

Rocks??? Yeah, that’s gonna help... *smacks self on forehead* — one wonders about such people. Their intentions are good, but when faced with someone intent on killing people you must turn the situation around, and merely incapacitating the shooter is most times not an option — at least not from what I’ve read about these things...

Regarding Miss Assam:
She may indeed be an angel... But, there is no doubt in my mind that she had angels with her. From another statement the gunman fired 3 shots at her while she was directly advancing on him... And, she wasn’t hit? It doesn’t sound like this kid was a “bad shot”, but she is unharmed... THAT is the power of G-d as far as I’m concerned!


2,117 posted on 12/11/2007 8:56:08 AM PST by LibertyRocks
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To: Rick.Donaldson
It was explained earlier in this thread.

Please see above at 1956


2,118 posted on 12/11/2007 9:01:09 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: XeniaSt

Again... there are over 2100 posts in this thread and I am not on it 24 hours a day, and I don’t real ALL the posts in long threads. Some are simply off topic and inane. But thanks


2,119 posted on 12/11/2007 9:02:35 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: cake_crumb

Folks would have had to document to a mental health professional that he was an IMMINENT DANGER to himself or others.

The bloggings MIGHT have qualified depending. But were they ever made available to anyone with sufficient training and position to carry it further. I’m skeptical.

Perhaps the website is complicit in not forcefully bringing such to a professional’s awareness—maybe they did or tried to. But I’m loathe to hold websites legally responsible. Still, morally, they might should have, could ahve done more.

I agree that some folks are SUPER RESISTENT TO HELP. Have met more than a few. Even super therapist with impossible cases once . . . a mother walked in with a 7-10 or so year old boy. BEfore they got far into the room, Milton Erickson told the mother to take the boy out of there and not to bring him back. My fantasy about that is that whether or not Milton would have described it that way—he sensed some spiritual forces that he didn’t want to tangle with.

Sure folks can justify all manner of diagnoses from the DSM IV.

I’m not impressed nor convinced that such diagnoses would comprehensively describe all the important things going on with this kid.

imho, it is clear that he had at least a significant demonic problem of above average proportions. Medication and therapy will NOT solve that problem by a long shot. Some such can even make such a problem worse.

He MAY have had a diagnosible mental illness even IF all his demonic and socializaiton problems had been worked through. But I am somewhat skeptical even of that.


2,120 posted on 12/11/2007 9:02:45 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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